smoking 360

Engine, ignition, fuel, cooling, exhaust

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DuckRyder
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Re: re: smoking 360

Post by DuckRyder »

dolinick wrote:Anyway, I bought a $30.00 Tachometer and a volt meter.
If I can get the truck to start I'll check the timing with the
tach. Maybe I'll be able to adjust the mixture screws.
I am still concerned that there is something else wrong
other than tuning.

Dan
Me too, but I am about out of ideas...

I am concerned about the sound and the oil pressure...

There are quite a few possible explanations, and without being there to (really) hear and check it out it is hard to narrow down...

It the wires (firing order - separate) and simple tuning don't fix it up:

Bent pushrod
bearing clearance
intake gasket
And so on..............

If it is too rich it could be washing down the cylinders and contaminating the oil, and the idle screws do impact the entire mixture on a Holley. Float level will flood it as well.

Pull the dipstick out and give it a whiff, does it smell like fuel?
Robert
1972 F100 Ranger XLT (445/C6/9” 3.50 Truetrac)

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -- Jeff Cooper
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Thunderfoot
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re: smoking 360

Post by Thunderfoot »

Looking at the videos I would say that is Oil smoke... nice blue color on my computer anyways...
The thing that bugs me is that the motor was quiet when he first got it going and now this... The valve train is making way to much noise even for a solid lifter to me anyways... I really wonder about the oil pressure being to low...
I would take and pull a valve cover off and look in there. You can see if any of the push rods are loose. You can push down on the rockers and see if they are solid lifters or not, etc... also see if it is getting good oil flow up there...

The RPM is WAY to high, it has to have a vacuum leak somewhere and as someone said before about it leaking on the bottom side, sucking oil I would give this a 90%+ probability!!!
You can try to retighten the intake bolts down... start in the center and work your way out (and side to side) and tighten a little at a time... Aluminum intakes have got to be re-torqued after they have been heat cycled a couple of time after new install...
Until you can get the idle down you wont be able to tune it much...

Well, that's my :2cents: + :2cents: :)
Shayne
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If it Looks good and Works good then it's ok by me. Everything has its issues from time to time...

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re: smoking 360

Post by Banjo »

I always find writing lists helpful to me. First thing, if cam really is 540 lift (or whatever it was) and 292 duration, the motor's not really gonna turn on till probably 4 grand and up. What are your rear end gears? And, motor not gonna like vaccuum secondary carbs, would prefer double pumper. Motor not gonna like any vacuum booster for brakes. Another thing, if cam this big, probably has roller rockers, I have had rocker arms come out from UNDER roller rockers and be banging around, and roller rocker arms usually have polylocks, I've had them backoff. Pull your valve covers, and make sure. If there is metallic banging and oil pressure is goofy and this all started within last week or two, could be thrown roller rocker.
I have a little boxy Chevy II with a built 350 and 4 speed and manual everything (even distributor is mech advance) and I can tell you, while a big cam sounds good, they are not fix and forget and at least in my case, it's hard to get the engine set to where it's not running rich and I have to change the oil alot and plugs and it idles so rough I'd hate to think about actually driving it up on car ramps, I have to jack it up and put ramps under front tires. I wish I'd installed a smaller cam before engine went in car and mine's only 490 lift w/280 duration. I don't know anything about big block 360s, but always figured they were better suited at lower rpms?? If that's true (and I don't know), you've got a camshaft that doesn't start coming on till probably 4500 rpm or better, when I'd figure the oiling system on a 360 best suited max of 5 grand rpm. You might be intending to drag race, and that cam would be great for that. But, for driving around, it's not going to be alot of fun. You need to consider buying an oil pressure gauge and installing it to see what true oil pressure is. You need MIN of 10 lbs per 1,000 rpm, supposedly. HOWEVER, if you hook up pressure gauge and at idle, you're at 10 pounds when oil is warm, I'd be concerned. If oil pressure goes up no more than to about 20-30 pounds at high rpm, if you ever get it runnign well enough to get there, I'd be concerned. And, with a cam that large, you might look towards 15 inches of vacuum at idle, maybe. Just random thoughts, and I mean no insult.
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re: smoking 360

Post by Banjo »

sorry, was typing fast as I could, meant to say pushrod coming out from underneath roller rocker. It can happen, I know from experience, and I know I've had polylocks back off and loose setting too.
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re: smoking 360

Post by DuckRyder »

Banjo,

FE's have shaft mount rockers so no polylocks...

In a big heavy truck a VS carb will work better than a DP ...

:thup:
Robert
1972 F100 Ranger XLT (445/C6/9” 3.50 Truetrac)

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -- Jeff Cooper
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re: smoking 360

Post by dolinick »

I had been trying to post a message about my truck today but something was wrong with the bulletin board or my computer.

I started the truck today. I didn't make any adjustments. I just let it run about 10 minutes. It didn't make the noise until after it was running for 10 minutes. Listen to the noise it started making toward the very end of the video. I turned it off for a minute and started it up so you could maybe hear the noise. These are video clips I took during the 10 minute period. The engine was cold when I started it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOfO-l8laiA

Dan
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1968 F500 Utility Truck
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re: smoking 360

Post by Finleyphoto »

Dude, you still haven't answered my question about the smoke.

Is it oil based or gas?

...and... What did that huge mosquito fogging cloud smell like coming out of the exhaust?

This is important for those of us trying to fix this via remote control.


Dennis
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re: smoking 360

Post by Finleyphoto »

Also, after watching your latest vid I'm concerned about oil starvation.

A direct read oil pressure guage would be great about now.

Don't mount it on the dash, just lay it on the fender and hook it up for now.

I'd like you to pull a valve cover and let's see if oil will come off the rockers while it's running.

That way we'll know and won't have to worry.


Dennis
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re: smoking 360

Post by Thunderfoot »

That sounds just like an oil starvation / loss of pressure problem to me... I had a motor that the oil pickup got plugged and it would do just like this.. run fine for about 5-10 minutes then no pressure, turn it off for a bit and then you could start it up and it would go some more... The stuff plugging it up would settle away from it and then it would get sucked back up... unfortunately it spun a bearing...

I'm afraid there are other issues besides this with it too...
Shayne
I'm not "Brand Loyal" Ford-Chevy-Dodge-Toyota I have them all, one even cross mixed...
If it Looks good and Works good then it's ok by me. Everything has its issues from time to time...

69 SWB (project) & 69 Highboy (driver/project)
http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa29 ... d%20truck/
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Re: re: smoking 360

Post by dolinick »

Finleyphoto wrote:Dude, you still haven't answered my question about the smoke.

Is it oil based or gas?

...and... What did that huge mosquito fogging cloud smell like coming out of the exhaust?

This is important for those of us trying to fix this via remote control.


Dennis
I was thinking about it and smelling it today. I don't know what it is. I wanna say oil. I don't know what they both smell like. I know when I used to turn my lawn mower over to pull the grass clogging up the blade then it would smoke a lot when I started it back up. Would the oil smoke smell and look like that?

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re: smoking 360

Post by Finleyphoto »

Gas smoke always stung my eyes a little.

Oil is sorta heavy and just makes me cough.

Maybe you have both at the same time...

What about the end of the tailpipes?


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Re: re: smoking 360

Post by dolinick »

Finleyphoto wrote:Gas smoke always stung my eyes a little.

Oil is sorta heavy and just makes me cough.

Maybe you have both at the same time...

What about the end of the tailpipes?


Dennis
This truck hasn't been run in 3 years except for recently with the new engine. I rubbed the inside of the tailpipe with my fingers and a paper towel. Initially the right side felt dry and not much soot. The left side was a little sticky and thicker black soot. It reminds me of the smeel of burnt plastic. Or fried wiring insulation. Like when you just shorted something out. And not necessarily unlike firecrackers.

I even took a picture:

Image
large: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2320/152 ... 629f_o.jpg

Dan
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re: smoking 360

Post by Finleyphoto »

After giving this some thought I'm begining to wonder if this engine isn't a pig in a poke.

It smokes, shakes and rattles a little too much for my tastes.

I'd love to do a teardown and inspect the guts of this thing. I'd bet we'd find some interesting surprises... (been there, done that)

I remember a '72 El Camino the guy in the stall next to me flagged.

For 10 days he did everything trying to get this thing to run right. Distributor, Carburator, Plug Wires...

Finally he decided he needed to do a compression test and started to pull the spark plugs. They were old, they were wasted and burnt to a crisp.

I asked the guy, "I thought you replaced these the first day."

He said, "The customer said they were brand new and he had just put them in!"

I said, "And you believed him?"


Dolinick: It may be too soon to tear this engine down, but I don't think this is gonna be a simple easy fix. Gut instinct.

Not to worry you, but prepare yourself just the same and let's keep checking some stuff out to make sure.


Dennis.
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re: smoking 360

Post by Finleyphoto »

Just looked the the paper towel photo.

I think there's some oil and gas, both.

At least it's not dripping with wet oil.

First, pull that valve cover to make sure we're getting oil to the rockers.

What oil do you have in this engine? Straight 30? 10W-30?
...and how long ago did you put it in?

2nd, Prepare yourself to pull the intake (depending on what we find out on the oil) and see what's going on with the intake gaskets.


Dennis
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re: smoking 360

Post by briney »

maybe, if the engine has sat for a while, it mightn't hurt to find a long steady grade, and give it full throttle in top at about 25mph. let it accelerate. if you do this a few times, it will seat the rings again. might not fix it,but worth a try.
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