smoking 360

[Jake11]

Listen to DR. He's right on the advice.

[DuckRyder]

I don't want to comment because I haven't accepted the fact that the cam needs replaced. I'm still in denial. I asked my mechanic(neighbor) about how to replace the cam. He said the water pump and radiator and stuff like that have to come out. I never really had a budget and I already spent too much. I guess it's Murphy's Law taking effect now. I have my Nova with stock straight six cylinder engine and 3 speed. I like the idea of have a grocery getter(nova) and a hotrod(F100) I want to know under what circumstances I should or could keep that cam? Earlier you said the cam may not be as horrible as you thought and someone said if I want to keep the cam I should replace the stock rockers.

I'll answer some of the other tomorrow, but to this question once you determine that it hasn't wiped the cam by looking at all of the lifters. (the one you have sounds O.K.) and assuming that it is in fact the Lunati it might not be awful. The two main problems I see with it is being a single pattern cam, and the long duration is going to lower the dynamic compression ratio. If your 360 has stock type pistons, it is going to be pretty bad.

I'll run some numbers tomorrow and try to get a better idea.

Without getting too technical, the camshaft is the brains of the engine, It will give it its personality as it were. What happens when you put to big of a cam in without the attending higher compression and other parts is that it loses efficiency and actually doesn't perform' as well as a smaller but better matched cam.

I'd expect it to feel pretty soft and lazy if it is close to stock with that cam.

Again though, I'll run some numbers tomorrow and see how bad it really looks.

Keep in mind though, we are still just assuming that is the cam based on two (of a great many) numbers.

[hotrod ford]

ok, im sorry that the eng. that i sold dolinick broke, but i'm tired of hearing that it was the cam that did it. i drove that truck for 3 years and nothing ever happened to it. no, i did not build the motor, but did add the intake and carb while i was on leave from iraq. it was intended to be a hot rod and it was until my wife damaged the cab. the last time the truck was started was the end of dec. 06 or right at the beginning of jan. 07. maybe because it was not started for 9 months and was not primed and with some jelled up fuel and with the same oil that was just sitting in there for so long, hmmm, maybe that had a little to do with it. that eng. was tested with over 336 hp at the wheels. if i hadnt bought a cs with a 390 i would have kept it. so for all of you assuming that it was damaged before he bought it, all you are doing is stirring a hornets nest. he needed an eng. and he bought what was a nice one. but thats just my . hotrod ford

[DuckRyder]

Oh, one other thing that might be a clue:

If i understand what HotRod Ford and dolinick have said, the engine has run very little with the current intake (what was on it before?) that is supported by the intake pictures showing a lack of coked oil or even significant staining of the underside.

That tells me we need to be looking hard at the intake...

It having run for 3 years with the cam should eliminate coil bind and mechanical interference during normal running as probable causes.

(sticking valves is still possible)

Now there is one other thing that really bothers me:

If that engine made a true 336 wheel horsepower and we assume a 5-10% drive train loss that is about 355-370 flywheel horsepower. If it wasn't super/turbocharged or on the bottle then we need to figure out in particular what pistons are in it, cause it has more than stock 360 8.2: compression.

Now onto my cam math:

I made a lot of assumptions, more really than I am comfortable with. What I did was "construct" a .030 over 360 in Pat Kelley's DCR calculator:

http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html

I used specifications for a 360 where I could and reasonable approximations to obtain an 8.2 static compression ratio. (approximate stock 360 compression.)

I then entered the cams to get dynamic compression ratios.

• VERY approximate stock cam 7.16-7.68
  00054 Lunati 6.14
  
  343904 (TruckPower) Crane 6.72
  2106 Edelbrock Performer 6.72
  16915 Crower 6.67
  MTF-4 Melling 6.57

If I was doing it I would put the Crane or the Edelbrock in there. The crane is the same cam as the popular 343901 (or 901) except that it is packaged with lifters as a truck power. (a 901 with lifters is a 902) and I would chose between the 343902, 343904 and 2106 based almost entirely upon price and availability.

I maintain my position that the engine would run better with one of these than whats in it, based on the currently available evidence.

If hi compression pistons are discovered, or it is found to be something other than 360+.030 cubes, that would likely change my recommendations.

I guess we are kind of "dead in the water" until someone has a chance to some additional checking.

I am the kind of guy that would have to know exactly whats in it, I would probably have already torn it down to bare block for microscopic examination If it were mine.

One other correction to my previous calculations. Lunati does spec the .554 lift with a 1.72 rocker ratio, which means that it would have even more if the rockers were upgraded to adjustables (1.76).

Crane specs theirs at 1.76 ratio
Crower specs theirs at 1.76 ratio
Melling and Edelbrock don't state the rocker ratio.

FWIW

[dolinick]

oops, posted it twice.

[dolinick]

Hopefully we will be reinstalling the intake manifold, lifters, and pushrods today.

Yesterday I pulled the new spark plugs but it was already dark outside. I did notice plugs 5 and 6 were dry and 7 and 8 were oily or wet. Those were the two on the right side with severly bent pushrods.

I also inspected the pushrods. The two of the bent ones had a small crack at the bend. Two of the bent rods had some metal shaved off. I will take pictures if you like. I assumed this damage was done after the bending occured. Also, all the pushrods had a brownish patina except one which had a small area of light grey. It wasn't scuffed or shiny just greyish instead of brown on a small area.

I pulled a couple more lifters and they look flat and smooth on the bottom. The bottom of the lifter is also a brown color where the rest of the lifter is more of a chrome. Again I can take pictures if yall are interested.

Hopefully if Charlie (my neighbor) comes to help me install the intake manifold this afternoon and we get the engine back together we'll have more information.

I don't know what to do with all the gas. I filled up the tank mixing whatever old gas was in there. Can I run small amounts of this "bad" gas in my other vehicles? Lawnmower?

I think I'm going to work on the front drum brakes while I wait for charlie. I had taken apart on of the rear brakes and got it back together so hopefully I can do the front.

How do you install a intake manifold gaskets by the way? I can't see
any gasketmaker on this picture.



Dan

[Finleyphoto]

How do you install a intake manifold gaskets by the way? I can't see
any gasketmaker on this picture.



Dan

It depends on the gasket set you're using. Read the "destructions"

Some go up clean & dry, others you may have to dope up with something.


Dennis

[DuckRyder]

Please look at all of the old lifters. You need to make sure that the cam lobes aren't damaged.

Stand by and I will try to find a picture of a bad one...

Those intake gaskets are a bit of a puzzle, I assume they look copper because they are covered with "copper coat" and aren't really copper.

Everyone has their favored installation method for gaskets. I like to put mine together "dry" with no sealer or glue to speak of. I just use a very small amount of weatherstrip adhesive in the area between the middle two ports to hold it in place.

The Ultra Black goes on the front and back block rails, between the heads/intake gaskets.

[DuckRyder]

This picture is a bit blurry, it is a Crane 343801/2 I replaced, couldn't find any better ones.

The two lifters in the foreground with the half circle mark are junk, the two behind them are O.K.

I am a little concerned about that "grey spot" on the pushrod too....

Let us know how it turns out, I sure do hope it runs good for you...

[DuckRyder]

Well, the suspense is killing me...

Is it running?

[Finleyphoto]

Robert:

I may have a '67 352 with a busted piston in a couple of days.

Just bought the truck for parts on my '67.


Dennis

[DuckRyder]

I may have a '67 352 with a busted piston in a couple of days.

Cool, sounds like a candidate for punching out to 4.05 and putting a set of standard bore 410 (390 truck) pistons in with a S C A T stroker crank..

[Finleyphoto]

I may have a '67 352 with a busted piston in a couple of days.

Cool, sounds like a candidate for punching out to 4.05 and putting a set of standard bore 410 (390 truck) pistons in with a S C A T stroker crank..

Yeah, I'm not quite sure what to do with the truck. It's got a clear Title.

And I'll yank the column and shift rods I've been looking for.

Other than that, it'd be kind of a waste to part it out.

Maybe put in an Ididit column and go with a C6...?

Possibly a set of those "smoothie" wheels from LMC?

I'll give it some thought.


Dennis

[dolinick]

Well, the suspense is killing me...

Is it running?

My neighbor came by this morning and said he couldn't make it till about 2 p.m. Anyway neither of us made it back to my house by 2 p.m. I wasn't prepared to work on it by myself. That's why I was asking about the gaskets. Although he seems knowledgeable he may not be very dependable or organized. I dont know if I can install the intake and rockers and pushrods by myself. What is the most difficult thing about it? Torquing the bolts on the intake and rocker arms?

Dan

[DuckRyder]

Honestly,

The hardest part of the actual assembly is probably sitting the intake down perfectly the first time. When you are using the silicone for end seals its even a bit worse. You cannot move it around after it is in place and the FE complicates matters even a bit more because the distributor goes through it as well.

Torquing it isn't hard, but it looks like yall pulled it with the carb on, so that may make it harder to torque without a torque extension.

Rocker arms aren't that hard, there is a specific procedure, which we have posted here in the past...