smoking 360

[Thunderfoot]

From what I have heard on the videos what sounds like lack of oil pressure for the lifters to stay pumped up...
When they have been loosing pressure and collapsing it is very easy for the push rods to hop out of the rocker arms and then jump around and get bent...

[Finleyphoto]

Can you see the tops of the pistons through the spark plug holes?

He needs to check the pistons. Leave nothing to chance.

If one's cracked from a valve hitting the top of one everything else is just a waste of time.


Dennis

[dolinick]

Do you think we bent these when we were trying to startup the engine? We had the rotor 180 degrees out at first and then just tried to set the timing by ear. My cousin had checked through the #1 plug hole for TDC and had set the distributor rotor in 180 degrees out. later I simply turned
it around and then the engine started. Then we monkeyed with the timing.

I may have overheated the engine the first day I drove it to the muffler shop. It was steaming from the overflow tube on the radiator when I got to the muffler shop about a half a mile away. I also tightened the hose clamps which were leaking a little. Now I'm beginning to think that the water had leaked out of the radiator and that maybe I drove it that day without much water. When I finally limped back to my house I added about 2 gallons of coolant. How many gallons does it hold? I didn't realize it had gone dry. We had filled it up a few days earlier.

My mechanic neighbor is going to put the new pushrods in. He said he was going to get a light and look in at the valves to see if they are in place. He has a similar setup he said on his truck (but I think it's a dodge). He also had a ford just like mine before he ran into a tree and bent the frame. He already knew about the holley possibly blowing out the "power valve". I'm not sure if it's called power valve but I think someone had mentioned that on here before. Should we look in and try to see the tops of the pistons while we are at it?

Dan

[Finleyphoto]

Dan:

Those push rods are bent pretty bad.

I'd say it's very possible you might have bent valves at this point and maybe cracked pistons.

Something usually causes the valves to stay down and the distributor has little to do with it.

The valves either stuck, ...or the timing chain/gear broke at some point before you got it and this is left over damage.

You need to look down each spark plug hole at the very least.

If the valves are sticking in the open position, you'll just bend more push rods and maybe do even more damage.


Dennis

[Finleyphoto]

There is "Timing" between the camshaft and the crankshaft which is controlled by the timing chain and gears.

Distributor timing, or ignition timing is in reference to when the spark plug fires to the predetermined valve/piston/camshaft/crankshaft positions.

The camshaft will determine when the valves open and close and for how long they stay open --- and also how far the valves open.


All that distributor will do is determine when that spark plug fires.


Dennis

[Finleyphoto]

Dan:

There's one more thing you need to do, and this is the time to do it.

Get an air compressor and a blow gun with a rubber end that will fit in the spark plug holes.

If you haven't taken the rocker shafts off, do it now. You want all the valves in the closed position.

Shoot and hold air in each cylinder, and watch your fingers around the fan. The engine will try and spin as the piston is driven downward.

This is known as a cylinder leakage test.

If you have air coming up out of the carburetor, the intakes are bent.

Out the exhaust, then exhaust valves are bent.

Cracked or broken pistons the air will go down into the oilpan.

And just fer the heck of it, take the radiator cap off, too! If you get a geyser out the filler neck, you've got a blown head gasket, cracked head or cracked block.

Now, some leakage past the valves and pistons is normal, but if it's a lot then you've been had.


Dennis

[basketcase0302]

Good info for troubleshooting for sure.

One question though...in this pic and the other one of the plugs:


Don't this look like oil fouling? Possibly piston rings gone?
Or is it un-burnt gas on the plugs?

Thanks in advance.

Basketcase

[Finleyphoto]

Good info for troubleshooting for sure. One question though...in this pic and the other one of the plugs: Don't this look like oil fouling? Possibly piston rings gone?
Or is it un-burnt gas on the plugs?

Thanks in advance.

Basketcase

With the valves not opening and closing right, (maybe a broken piston?) who knows.

Could even be a "false clue"

If the valves and pistons aren't right, none of the rest of it will be either.

He needs to do some detective work and exploratory surgery on this engine.


Dennis

[Banjo]

Ok, I'm gonna make you the same suggestion I made to a buddy who bought a ski boat years ago with a 427 Holman Moody engine for $2500 (this was 30 years ago). Take it out and have machine shop go through it before you break something. He didn't (and threw a rod). It's up to you. Used engines are pigs in pokes, as said, I've been burned. It may or may not be too late for you, but remember bandaids can be eating time and money that would otherwise be spent getting it properly diagnosed and reassembled at machine shop.
At very least, if you're not gonna do that, strip it down best you can either in truck or at home and check, check, check, and reinstall a small cam and break it in right (Rotella diesel engine oil and some cam break in lube). A cam too big for stock valvetrain is just going to break stuff, it's not your fault. Maybe driving it without enough water or oil is, but a 292 duration 514 cam is just dang big. Dang big.

[Finleyphoto]

One other thing needs to be said on this matter:

Aren't these little $200 digital video cameras and YouTube great?

I don't think we could have figured this one out sitting at home with a Dr Pepper in hand and our feet propped up by the computer without them.

Photos alone just wouldn't have done it.

A new tool for the professional mechanic...


Dennis

[dolinick]

Yep, that sheds some light on the subject...

I'm worried about those rockers, with such a large cam and the attending valve springs (which it does look like it has proper springs and retainers.) You may continue to have problems with stock rockers and pushrods.

1) make sure that it hasn't thrown a lifter out into the valley when you put it back together.
2) after all of the pushrods are fixed, rotate it by hand and look for interference particularly between the pushrod and the openings in the intake and the valve spring retainers and rockers.

I'm kind of surprised, it didn't sound that bad to me, but some others picked up on the noise...

With the pushrod shaved like that I'd change the oil and filter too...put at least 6 qts in it.

Half the time I don't know what you are talking about. I now know what a lifter actually is and I think I just figured out what the valley is. Two of the lifters had come apart. We were not able to reach one so we pulled the intake manifold off. The little round piece the pushrod sits on had fallen out of two of the lifters

I bought a set of lifters and an intake gasket set. My neighbor is planning on putting it back together tomorrow but I'm still worried about the engine. The man who sold me the lifters made me think that old gas caused varnish and made the valves stick and bent my pushrods. He showed me how to bang on them with a rubber mallet to see if they are sticky or not.

Do yall think that maybe running the engine with the old gas in it may have caused this? The guy from the motor exchange shop told me I need to drain the tank and send it out to be cleaned. He also said that if my lifters are sticking because of varnish I need to remove the heads and have them worked on.

Dan

[dolinick]

One other thing needs to be said on this matter:

Aren't these little $200 digital video cameras and YouTube great?

I don't think we could have figured this one out sitting at home with a Dr Pepper in hand and our feet propped up by the computer without them.

Photos alone just wouldn't have done it.

A new tool for the professional mechanic...


Dennis

This camera is about $120 at wal-mart. A set of four rechargeable AA batteries and charger will set you back another $20 at the most. My old $100 dollar digital camera was about 2 years old and it decided to quit on me. This one has many more features and takes much better video. The only thing is that my memory card (128 MB) no longer seems adequate. I haven't invested in a 2-4 GB SD card yet. I Think another $20-$40 bucks would get me one.

Dan

[Finleyphoto]

Two of the lifters had come apart. We were not able to reach one so we pulled the intake manifold off...

The man who sold me the lifters made me think that old gas caused varnish and made the valves stick and bent my pushrods. He showed me how to bang on them with a rubber mallet to see if they are sticky or not.

Do yall think that maybe running the engine with the old gas in it may have caused this? The guy from the motor exchange shop told me I need to drain the tank and send it out to be cleaned. He also said that if my lifters are sticking because of varnish I need to remove the heads and have them worked on.

Dan

The lifters coming apart is not inspiring confidence...

What did the intake gaskets look like that you pulled off? Were they tore up and/or distorted?

What's probably happened is the vavles became stuck open and the pistons smacked them, and HARD I'd say judging from the photos you posted of the pushrods.

Dennis

[DuckRyder]

Half the time I don't know what you are talking about.

Don't worry about it, Katherine says I sound like the teacher on Peanuts to her all the time

I now know what a lifter actually is and I think I just figured out what the valley is. Two of the lifters had come apart. We were not able to reach one so we pulled the intake manifold off. I bought a set of lifters and an intake gasket set. My neighbor is planning on putting it back together tomorrow

Yep the valley is the area under the intake between the heads... The lifters came completely apart? I'll tell you the truth, if you have the intake off and are replacing the lifters my advice is to put a new cam in it now... half the work is done.

but I'm still worried about the engine.

When you buy an engine from an individual you never know what is really in there without receipts. Even with receipts you still don't really know the quality of work... Trust but verify...

The man who sold me the lifters made me think that old gas caused varnish and made the valves stick and bent my pushrods. He showed me how to bang on them with a rubber mallet to see if they are sticky or not.

It is possible if all of the bent pushrods are on intake valves...needs to be checked. I really wouldn't think a few year old gas would do it, but you never know.

Do yall think that maybe running the engine with the old gas in it may have caused this?

Again, possible, not likely in my opinion.

The guy from the motor exchange shop told me I need to drain the tank and send it out to be cleaned. He also said that if my lifters are sticking because of varnish I need to remove the heads and have them worked on.

Dan

That is all wild speculation without doing some additional checking. Is it possible? yes, but it also might all be a huge waste of time and money...

[Finleyphoto]

That is all wild speculation without doing some additional checking. Is it possible? yes, but it also might all be a huge waste of time and money...

Robert:

Dude, we're going at this like those guys in the Jaws movie about cutting the shark open...

Tell you what... Dan, do that cylinder leakage test that I described.

If I'm wrong, I'll shut up and buy you both a 12-pack of Dublin Dr Pepper.

I'll even go down to Dublin and "bootleg" it myself. (Course, I was going down there anyway...)


Dennis