Documentation that running a motor excessively hot is bad.

[Joe Kriston]

Yes,I know it's common knowledge,but where can I find a manual or journal(like a Chilton's or a manuf.'s manual) that would say why it's bad when the motor runs too hot?

To explain,I'm trying to help out a friend who replaced his 2002 Allison diesel C!@#$vy pickup with a 2005 version...In short,his 2005 runs way hotter,almost to the overheating point when he's pulling his 5th wheel...His 2002 never did this...The dealer has just been giving him the runaround...He left it there for two weeks and they said that they "couldn't find anything wrong with it"...He brought it to arbitration and they offered free oil changes for 24 months

Naturally when he takes it to the dealer and they drive it around the block it doesn't overheat...He videotaped the dash(to document the temperature guage reading) while he was driving it to prove how hot it runs...They're saying the truck is fine;he wants them to either correct the problem with it running hot under a load,or get him another truck or his money back...Which is why I'm wondering if it says somewhere that running an engine hot for long periods of time can cause harm to the kenutenvalves or dinkoflappusses....so my buddy can have some documentation to bring to the table at arbitration...

[customcrewcab]

whos he dealing with? the sells man? he need to talk to else. my buddy works for a ford and they take eveything they can and fix it. they don't pay for it. ford pays for it. it cost the dearship nothing. it makes them money and keeps people happy. next time he goes there tell that guy he need to talk to his boss.

[Joe Kriston]

He's been going up the chain of command at the dealership there,Crewcab...He's really disappointed because he thought this might be the last truck he'll ever buy,not used for work at all....and after the proper break-in period it's already giving him this overheating problem...I realize no product or service is perfect,but I usually guage the character of a business by how they deal with things when something does go wrong...So far,in this case,the dealership and C!@#$%let have been very disappointing...

[Sharkdance]

How hot are we talking? Above 230F ? Anything above 250F would start boiling the coolant even with antifreeze and a proper cooling system.
Does he notice any loss of power or extra/different noises when it gets that hot?

Your right, we all know that friction, and igniting fuel & air causes heat. So you have to keep the heat level within tolerance or else it will seize.
Amazingly enough I dont posess any written proof of that so I see why your asking what seems to be a simple question.

Maybe your friend should look a little closer right around him for good solid undisputible documentation that his truck runs too hot. Im talking about right in his own glove box.
Try looking up the meintenance section of his owners manual. Im sure somwhere in there it says that overheating thier trucks is bad.
Also ask the parts department if they have a product knowledge catalog for his specific model truck. (Every dealership has to have one) Ask to borrow it but know that they probably wont allow him to take it, just read thru it at the counter so you know whats in it. if anything is usefull in it.
My point is this. If you can use the dealerships or manufactueres own literature to prove his case, then that is better than anything else you can find that is written.

I have a feeling though that his engine realy doesnt have an overheating problem. His transmission does.
The temps rise when he pulls because:

A) the trans needs a bigger/cooler (Does he have one at all?)

B) The fan clutch is bad. (highly unlikely)

I wish him luck. Sounds like he is dealing with a hard ass and maybe he will have to take customcrewcabs advice and talk to someone higher in the food chain.

Sharkdance

[67F250CS]

I must agree the added load is the problem. I had the same thing happen to mine until it broke in. I pulled a 40th RV across country as my real break in for my 390. Only had 200 miles when we took off from Phoenix in July. I put an electric fan in front of the radiator and the temps went back in normal range.

[Joe Kriston]

Yeah,'67F250,...what is it about pulling 40' rv's in July in Phoenix that makes these things run hot anyway?

Lots of good suggestions there,Sharkdance,thanks(makes you wonder why the dealer didn't think of them?)....I thought the same thing,hang 'em with their own literature...His main issue is the thing's running about 250" or more(and it definitely feels,smells and sounds like it's running hot),just under the overheating point(260),when he finally crests the last climb to wherever he goes,and his 2002 never came close to that pulling the same trailer...He only traded it in because it had about 150,000 miles on it...You would think three years newer would mean three years of (hopefully) improvement...As a side note,he even absent-mindedly filled up his old 2002 deisel w/ regular gas once when he first got it,and it never had the same problem of running hot...

[heatmiser]

...He only traded it in because it had about 150,000 miles on it...

That diesel was just getting started!

[willowbilly3]

So, does it boil over or spew out coolant? I always say if the coolant is staying in you don't have a heating problem, and nothing is going to get damaged at or under that temperature.
Maybe it has a slight head gasket leak or porosity somewhere that is minute enough to not manifest under normal conditions. Maybe it's the tranny. I have seen them drive the coolant temp up a good bit if the cooler is in the radiator. Hook the load behind it and go take their QC man for a ride. Get familiar with the lemon law and mention it a lot in every conversation. Document EVERYTHING.

[customcrewcab]

yea but its not even hot here and its having a problem. next summer it could be a be problem.

[willowbilly3]

It may take several visits to get through the chain. Basically here's what happens. You stand there and spill your guts to some service writer for 15 minutes and he writes on the service order "customer comlains temp guage reading hot" The dispatcher gives it to a tech, and probably not the best one because he is getting all the good paying slam bam recalls that pay 1.7 for 15 minutes work.
Now each time you go in you are increasingly more irritated so by the 3rd-4th visit you may get to talk to the service manager, maybe take the QC man for a ride if you are really loud and obnoxious in front of other customers.
They only get three shots a fixing a problem on a new car and you can make them take it back under the federal lemon law.
Or you could just drain half the coolant out, and put it in a hard long hill with a big load and melt it down.

[Joe Kriston]

Willowbilly,I think you've got that dealership chain of command thing down....Almost exactly what he's gone through...As it's turning out,GM is aware of overheating problems with the 2005 model...Seems it has something to do with the airflow through the radiator or something....They're just trying to pacify the complainants rather than correct the problem for cost measures,I suppose....

[fordman]

sick em. go after them make them fix it. call your state's attorney general. it works alot of times.

[Joe Kriston]

Thanks for all of your help...After a lot of discussion,and some of your input,and through some sort of mediation today,GM has decided to buy the truck back...Wonder what they'll do with it?...

[fordman]

resale it

[Joe Kriston]

Speaking of which,I read a little blurb in the newspaper about all these Louisiana and Mississippi vehicles that were caught in the floods....The story said that car and truck buyers need to be aware;that it's only a matter of time before these flooded cars get autioned off and find their way back into the market again...