What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

[DuckRyder]

Wow, I'd love to have $9k to build a motor with... I doubt it would will be a 390 and definately wouldn't have iron heads....

IIRC the engine did include the carburation and igniton...

I'd venture a guess I have that much in mine, probably more (even not counting my labor) and yes I should have gone with Aluminum heads, but I was pretty deep into the stock ones before it became so obvious...

[Fordtastic]

Your point is well taken Rob... Im sorry you had to deal with such a mess... I'm excited that you will get it done correctly...

[70shortwide]

ok found it

All of our turn-key crate engines come with a 1 year warranty with unlimited mileage

they wouldnt honour it?

He has had the motor for over a year. just hasnt fired it due to working on other parts of the truck

[robroy]

Good morning SideOilerFE, Jamie, Robert, and Fordtastic, thanks for your excellent replies!

I heard (from Steve) that an external cleaning would be sufficient

Probably because he doesn't want you to discover all the corners they cut. You'll soon find out from FE specialties. Good luck.

The thought did cross my mind! But it's probably just a response that's naturally in line with the general attitude I've observed from the beginning. They seem relaxed about the details, perhaps excessively. Or perhaps, knowing that I'm a beginner, he didn't want to burden me with the engine removal/install process! He may have been trying to "go easy" on me. Oh well!

Wow, I'd love to have $9k to build a motor with... I doubt it would will be a 390 and definately wouldn't have iron heads...

I know what you mean! Back when I picked out the engine, I wasn't aware of the most exotic FE engines and other interesting options. Yet the price is on par with what's available from the other engine builders for their "turn key" engines. Has my engine been "turn key?" Not quite. If you're curious about how I earned the gold coin for this engine (and how you can do the same or better, while having a memorable adventure), read Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill a few times. I think you'll like it!

Trick my dad taught me on tieing stuff down is make an overhead knot in your line half way between the two ends and loop the bitter end through the one fitting and back through the loop left by the overhand knot. Pull tension back to the fixture end and clamp the line around the loop to hold it while you make a knot. Hard to describe but...

This is interesting, thanks for the explanation! Do you happen to have a photo of this setup? I'm able to look up how to make an Overhead knot, but I'm easily challenged by rope, to say the least!

IIRC the engine did include the carburation and igniton...

Indeed it did!

I'd venture a guess I have that much in mine, probably more (even not counting my labor) and yes I should have gone with Aluminum heads, but I was pretty deep into the stock ones before it became so obvious...

While I guess aluminum heads are a great choice for these engines, you'll be interested to hear Tom's Mustang. It has cast iron heads and dynos somewhere between 650 and 690 HP (I forget the exact number)! He fired it up for my yesterday and I caught it on video (which I'll post here soon)! The extreme, fierce nature of this engine made an impression on me. Even while standing five feet away, I felt it as much as I heard it!

Your point is well taken Rob... Im sorry you had to deal with such a mess... I'm excited that you will get it done correctly...

Thanks for your compassion for my scenario Fordtastic! Many times I've observed that the path to a desired outcome isn't a completely straight and predictable one, so I'm not put off by this event.

He has had the motor for over a year. just hasnt fired it due to working on other parts of the truck

You got it! Next time I do a car, I'll be careful to order the engine only after I've completed the car enough to fire the motor up, once installed. That was actually my plan this time also, but I wildly underestimated the amount of time it would take to get the chassis squared away, and the time it would take to install the engine. Thanks to Jamie for guiding me through the engine/frame alignment problems, by the way!

Thanks again for the excellent replies, and I'll post another pictorial update today!
Robroy

[Ranchero50]

Robroy, you are most welcome on the alignment help. I'm terrible at describing knots and knowing their names...

Take a length of rope and fold it in half with the bight (or loop) in one hand and the bitter ends in the other. Make the knot tight about 8" away from the loop. Tie one bitter end off so the loop is about half way to the other end. Take the other bitter end and loop it through the other fixture, bring it back through your loop and pull the line tight. You get mechanical advantage 3-1 I think to pull the line tight without too much effort. Then you pinch the line of around the loop and do a simple series of half hitches to lock it in place.

There are other better knot that do the same thing, but I always forget how they go. A simple overhand knot is hard on the rope. A figure 8 knot is much better and we use them for the confined space rescue team I'm part of at work.

Jamie

[robroy]

Hey Jamie, thanks for replying!

I'll have to sit with a piece of rope and try to work through your instructions--that sounds like you know of a good method! I like the idea of the arrangement providing a 3-1 assist to making the line tight.

You're on a confined space rescue team? Wow! What's your industry (I remember seeing a panoramic photo of some huge machine you were working on once, but didn't know what it was)?

Well on to the full report of my visit to FE Specialties!

I got there at 2:00PM and Tom checked out the engine, showed me around his shop, and showed me his very impressive Mustang until 4:30PM! Tom is obviously a quality oriented guy who really knows how to treat customers. I know he had a lot of engines and cars going on around there, but during my visit he wanted to do everything he could to make it as fun as possible--he wasn't in a rush with me! If only I could remember and fully understand all the interesting things he mentioned.

I got the distinct impression that he's interested in building quality engines, and not trying to "sell" me anything. In fact, it almost seemed like visiting a buddy who happened to be an FE engine expert! Zero pressure, zero rush. What a quality guy huh?

Here are some additional observations Tom made about the engine (I'm sure I've forgotten some important ones, but here goes):

1. He couldn't see any porting work on the heads (by looking in the exhaust ports with a flashlight), so they seem stock.
2. He noted that the RTV used with the intake manifold was beginning to shrink away from the mating surfaces in one spot. He mentioned that RTV tends to do that, which is why he rarely uses it.
3. He observed that several of my spark plugs had lots of oil on them. I told him about how I'd put oil directly in to the cylinders and turned the engine over, and he advised me to only use WD-40 in the future. He explained that it's possible for oil to become trapped between the two compression rings. Then when the engine's fired over, the oil can actually burn inside there, where it's trapped! And that can cause some nasty deposits in the area, which are bad for the engine. He stressed how important cleanliness is to an engine.
4. He noted that my D3TE engine block was the "Mirror block," or the "Mirror 105 block," (I forget which), and that it's a desirable block. The Steve Christ book also mentions that this is a good block (because of various reinforcements in casting, as I remember).
5. He noted that my after market distributor hold-down clip was pressing down only on one edge of the distributor, and he might want to swap it out with a factory hold-down (which presses more evenly on the top of the distributor).
6. I offered my fouled oil filter element to him in case he wanted to check it out, and he said he definitely did! He might cut it open to see how much metal is in there, just to satisfy curiosity.
7. I showed him the Milodon windage tray that caused so much trouble, and he found that quite interesting. He held on to it to experiment to see exactly what it was hitting on the crank. Tom seemed genuinely curious about the engine!
8. I mentioned the trouble I'd had in getting the block to retain the dipstick tube (it seemed like a semi-loose fit). Tom mentioned that it's made that way on purpose, because they didn't want people to tap the tube in to the block, possibly causing metal shavings to fall down in the oil pan! He said that he usually uses a type of clear adhesive on that area. He added that the RTV I'd used there wasn't a good idea, because RTV tends to shrink away from the mating surfaces, leaving passages for fluid to leak through.

Unlike most shops I've hired, Tom welcomed as many photos as I'd like to take. In fact, he even agreed to a video-recorded interview about the engine (and any modifications he did to it) when I come to pick it up! He is proud of his work!!!

Click on the photos for full resolution editions.

Here's Tom's engine building room. It was very clean and organized looking! The engine in the middle is a 390 that he's building for another customer. Looks pretty immaculate huh?





Here are some detailed photos of this super clean looking 390 block. The customer he's building this for was actually there when I arrived, talking with Tom in the engine room.



Tom's storage area of FE goods!



This 427 block is one of Tom's own projects.




Tom mentioned that this patch was done back in the 1970's. If I remember correct, Tom guessed that this engine "lost a rod!"



Here's another 427 Tom's working on. This one is a factory block from a Shelby Cobra that's going in to a customer's car (I think I saw the Cobra in his garage/shop area).










I heard from Tom that this block is super original--note that there are no tapped threads in the raised surfaces around the camshaft plug.




Tom also mentioned that this casting number, C5AE-H, shows that it's a desirable block!



Tom showed me his amazing Mustang! Before yesterday I'd never seen a car anything like this before. It sounded insanely aggressive and loud (in a good way). Even while standing four or five feet from the car I could feel the sound waves hitting my body! And when he revved the engine once, it caused a roll of teflon tape to JUMP on his nearby workbench--I'm pretty sure the sound waves caused it to jump (really)! EDIT: Upon looking at the video clip of this engine run, it actually appears that the tape fell down from a shelf on his workbench; it didn't jump in the air spontaneously as I previously thought!




And here's a dyno output sheet for an FE Tom built (not the one that's in his Mustang). Tom noted that even for the dyno runs, he leaves the air/fuel ratio at a level safe for continued operation. In other words, he doesn't doctor up the engine in an unstable way to get the highest dyno rating possible--he prides himself on this point! He had a wall with a bunch of these printouts pinned to it from the various engines he built!



And here's the one photo I took during the drive back. It was quite a drive--you get the idea!



Robert, thanks again for letting me know about FE Specialties. It's fantastic that I have the opportunity to have the engine re-done by Tom--this guy is the best!!!

Robroy

[DuckRyder]

You are welcome robroy. I really feel this will turn out very positive (although not inexpensive) and you are going to end up being much happier with the finished product.

Toms place looks very appropriate for engine building (obviously). So often people who are very good at what they do seem unapproachable, but Tom seems to treat customers the way he would want to be treated, truly it is a vanishing breed.

That is an awesome Mustang too... being sneaky like I am I think I'd like to put 4 or 6 big mufflers on it, a set of styled steelies and cruise around town looking for Camaros...

(and yes, I'm joking about actually street racing)

[sideoilerfe]

That is an awesome Mustang too... being sneaky like I am I think I'd like to put 4 or 6 big mufflers on it, a set of styled steelies and cruise around town looking for Camaros...

Sleepers are the best. I always wanted to do that with a Country Squire Although a truck is a pretty cool alternative.

[robroy]

Hey Robert and SideOilerFE, thanks for replying!

You are welcome robroy. I really feel this will turn out very positive (although not inexpensive) and you are going to end up being much happier with the finished product.

Indeed, that's how it seems!

Toms place looks very appropriate for engine building (obviously). So often people who are very good at what they do seem unapproachable, but Tom seems to treat customers the way he would want to be treated, truly it is a vanishing breed.

I know exactly what you mean.

That is an awesome Mustang too... being sneaky like I am I think I'd like to put 4 or 6 big mufflers on it, a set of styled steelies and cruise around town looking for Camaros...

(and yes, I'm joking about actually street racing)

Good idea! The Mustang sounded absolutely ferocious.

Sleepers are the best. I always wanted to do that with a Country Squire Although a truck is a pretty cool alternative.

Indeed!

That reminds me: Tom mentioned that he used to own a 1970 Bumpside with a super high torque engine he built for it. He recounted surprising a beautifully re-done Chevy pickup at the race track once with the extreme power of that truck! He could also tow a 6,000lb trailer up a long, steep freeway incline as fast as he wanted!

Meanwhile, 70_F100 was kind enough to share this excellent knot guide with me: http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/Know_Your_Knots.pdf

Robert and SideOilerFE, thanks again for replying!
Robroy

[r71f250]

RobRoy,

You seem to be not only a very nice guy, but humble as well. You have handled yourself so well through all of this, I think I have learned a thing or two from ya... You are definately a patient man....

Tom is definately going to get business out of this and thats for sure... I don't know of many engine builders who allows that kind of friendliness and open cover to his shop... Very impressive for you as well as Tom...

I look forward to this thread everyday... If time permits in the future I will stand in line to turn a few wrenches helping ya get that engine back in....

Blessings,
AMS

[1971ford]

I just saw that you took your engine down to FE specialties... I just talked with a guy from there and I will be going there soon to drop off my streetmaster intake, he's buying it. He is also most likely going to do some work on my 390. Was this FE specialties you went to on Rose bud street in Sacramento? I'm not sure if he has multiple places but I would think it is one place. If so you were only 20 minutes from my house.
Maybe i will be saying hi to your engine when i stop by in a few days

[robroy]

Hey R71F250 and Ryan, thanks for replying!

You seem to be not only a very nice guy, but humble as well. You have handled yourself so well through all of this, I think I have learned a thing or two from ya... You are definately a patient man....

Thanks for the compliments! This event has indeed called for patience. I've never driven a high powered car or truck before, so it wasn't easy to pull it all apart again when it was so close to being on the road.

Tom is definately going to get business out of this and thats for sure... I don't know of many engine builders who allows that kind of friendliness and open cover to his shop... Very impressive for you as well as Tom...

Yes I hope he does (get business)! I too was really impressed with how friendly and open he was with his shop. Publicity seems to make most shops nervous, for whatever reason, but not Tom!

I look forward to this thread everyday... If time permits in the future I will stand in line to turn a few wrenches helping ya get that engine back in....

Well thank you very much!

I just saw that you took your engine down to FE specialties... I just talked with a guy from there and I will be going there soon to drop off my streetmaster intake, he's buying it. He is also most likely going to do some work on my 390.

Ah! Most excellent. I'm sure you'll be very happy with his work!

Was this FE specialties you went to on Rose bud street in Sacramento? I'm not sure if he has multiple places but I would think it is one place.

Yes Sir you got it!

If so you were only 20 minutes from my house.
Maybe i will be saying hi to your engine when i stop by in a few days

Wow, that is classic! It must be nice to live in an area with so many great automotive shops, including FE Specialties.

Ryan, if you were interested, I could let you know the day and time I'll be going there to video record the test run of the engine. If you're only twenty minutes away you could be curious to check it out! I'll also be video recording a short interview with Tom all about the engine, and you might be entertained to hang out for that too.

Also, have you already picked up your new Dana 60 rear end from Mugwump in San Jose? If not, I could pick it up for you (it's on my way to Sacramento) and you could grab it from the back of my pickup at FE Specialties. I'll be headed that way anyways with my empty pickup bed--it may as well be hauling your Dana 60!

As you know, Tom fired up his amazing Mustang for me during my last visit. I got a decent video recording of it!

Since I know many of you have had difficulty watching videos I've posted before, I encoded this one using two separate formats. The first one is in WMV format, which should play in unmodified Windows Media Player setups. The second one is in H.264 (using an "avi" file name extension) format, which will play with any of VLC 1.0.3, Apple Quicktime 7, or the Apple iPhone. Just about any super modern (new within the last year) video playing program can play the H.264 video.

The most relevant benefit provided by the H.264-encoded video is its file size: the WMV video is 181MB, while the H.264 video is 75MB. The quality looks about the same with both of them, and they're the exact same video.

FE_Specialties_Mustang_A.wmv (181MB)
FE_Specialties_Mustang_A.avi (75MB)

I'll keep ya'll posted as I hear from Tom! Thanks for all the excellent help.

Robroy

[1971ford]

I just saw that you took your engine down to FE specialties... I just talked with a guy from there and I will be going there soon to drop off my streetmaster intake, he's buying it. He is also most likely going to do some work on my 390.

Ah! Most excellent. I'm sure you'll be very happy with his work!

Was this FE specialties you went to on Rose bud street in Sacramento? I'm not sure if he has multiple places but I would think it is one place.

Yes Sir you got it!

If so you were only 20 minutes from my house.
Maybe i will be saying hi to your engine when i stop by in a few days

Wow, that is classic! It must be nice to live in an area with so many great automotive shops, including FE Specialties.

Ryan, if you were interested, I could let you know the day and time I'll be going there to video record the test run of the engine. If you're only twenty minutes away you could be curious to check it out! I'll also be video recording a short interview with Tom all about the engine, and you might be entertained to hang out for that too.

Also, have you already picked up your new Dana 60 rear end from Mugwump in San Jose? If not, I could pick it up for you (it's on my way to Sacramento) and you could grab it from the back of my pickup at FE Specialties. I'll be headed that way anyways with my empty pickup bed--it may as well be hauling your Dana 60!

Robroy

Ahh thats funny, i figured he only had one shop and that was it.
I just called him today and he was just checking in at the shop for a few minutes so i wasn't able to drop off the intake and talk to him about building my 390.
Thanks a ton for offering to pick up the Dana 60, but i have already picked it up, it is waiting to be installed.
When do you plan on going down to hear your engine fire up? I realize you most likely don't know the exact day but if it happens to be after the 7th (a little over a week away, so the engine might be done before then), I will definately try and cruise down and meet you and see the engine. Maybe my engine will be there too, and mine can learn a few things from yours

[robroy]

Hey Ryan thanks for replying!

Ahh thats funny, i figured he only had one shop and that was it.

Indeed, that's the one!

I just called him today and he was just checking in at the shop for a few minutes so i wasn't able to drop off the intake and talk to him about building my 390.

Excellent! Yeah I heard that he'd be closed for the holiday until Monday.

Thanks a ton for offering to pick up the Dana 60, but i have already picked it up, it is waiting to be installed.

You're most welcome! Glad to hear that you managed to make it to San Jose.

When do you plan on going down to hear your engine fire up? I realize you most likely don't know the exact day but if it happens to be after the 7th (a little over a week away, so the engine might be done before then), I will definately try and cruise down and meet you and see the engine.

That would be the best! I'm guessing that I'll head back there one to three weeks from now. He originally gave me a two week estimate, but I let him know later that I'd gotten a little busy and 3-4 weeks was OK with me. But it's hard to say. I also heard that he's planning to rip in to it in just a few days, so it could be sooner.

If you were curious to stop by and check out the live run, and be on the interview video with Tom that would be the BEST. I'll keep you posted as to the day and time!

Maybe my engine will be there too, and mine can learn a few things from yours

Yes may be! Perhaps it could learn how to squawk really loudly if you install the windage tray without checking crankshaft clearance like I did! But it sounds like that's a situation you probably wouldn't get in to. You seem to know what you're doing with these things!

Thanks again for your great reply Ryan!
Robroy

[1971ford]

Sounds good Robroy,
Let me know when you find out when you are going down there to hear it run once again and i will cruise over in the bump unless i am in school. I will drop off the streetmaster 390 intake at that time.