What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

[70_F100]

A particular imaginary scenario always comes to my mind when hauling an engine. What would happen if I needed to make an emergency stop? I can imagine that it would take a serious amount of support to keep the engine from doing some somersaults right in to the back of my skull!

It's always a good idea to put it as close to the front of the bed as possible and tie it down to keep it from moving. That said, as long as you have it tied down well, it shouldn't move, no matter where in the bed it's placed. You're going to have it attached securely to the cradle, so just make sure it's all secured in the bed!!

With the pressure plate, clutch and flywheel removed I got a better look at the back of the engine, and discovered that in it previous life, this engine block was painted red! It looks like the yellow was sprayed right over the old paint, at least on the back. I'll be very glad to get a good finish on this thing!

Since it's apparent that all of the old finish wasn't removed prior to painting the engine, it would indicate that the block was never hot-tanked prior to the rebuild, which could explain some of the problems you've encountered. Personally, I would have it cleaned properly before starting the rebuild.

Also, be very careful about painting the surface where the bellhousing and spacer plate attach. Excessive paint can and will result in misalignment of the transmission to the engine. If you feel it needs to be painted, scrape it clean and just spray a thin, uniform coat of paint on that surface. Personally, I’ve always left that surface bare, as it’s protected from rusting by having the bellhousing tightly bolted against it.

I measured the oil pan about a hundred times, then got some 2x8's. I came out with a desired width of around 8 and 3/8", with a depth of 22 and 1/4".

Measure twice, cut once!!!

My oil drain plug got a little too "custom" for its own good. Thankfully it slid right in there after I removed the drain plug! I'll have to tape the hole up before taking it for the big drive. That said, I'll need to get it home too, so maybe I need to carve a groove in the wood to clear the drain spout!

I would, personally, make that modification to the cradle. If you’re going to have it dyno-tested (or even just test run), there will be oil in the pan. I wouldn’t want to drain that oil out until the engine has been installed in the truck and test run.

And here it rests, all the way in the saddle. To my absolute shock, it seems to be working well so far!!!

Looks GOOD!!!

On the back you can see how the oil pan brim is digging in to the wood somewhat. I guess that's no big deal!

That’s the way it’s done on factory crate engines!!

And a side shot shows that everything lines up OK (I was amazed)!

We never had a doubt, did you???

It looks like a nice, cozy fit!

BRAVO!!!!

Next, I'll tie it to the cradle with steel straps!

You’re almost ready for the trip!!!

Keep us posted on any developments!!!

[robroy]

Good afternoon! I had another chat with Tom and took these notes:

1. He'd be happy to dyno and tune the engine, but the price for that is $900. I'd still need to pay for the initial engine test run though, before the dyno, so the total price for both things together would be $1,200 (that includes cutting me a deal on both prices for the combo).
2. There's no need to remove the crankshaft pilot bearing.
3. He'd be happy to resurface the exhaust faces of the heads and fix some threads (one of the manifold threads came kind of messed up from the previous builder). In fact, these are things he would have done as a matter of course.
4. He'd like me to put the V belt setup back on the crankshaft and water pump. That way he can throw a short V belt on those two for his test run.
5. He has a lift that's sneaky enough to pluck the engine out from under my camper shell, if I choose to leave it on (on my work truck).

I'm thinking of skipping the dyno run. Although I would be fascinated to see the results from that, I think the extra $900 could be better spent on something else for the truck, like wide wheels and tires for the rear end, or a limited slip differential. Then again, it sounded like a fair deal since it's a pretty involved dyno and tune operation, from what I've heard, where he has access to the dyno facility for a whole day. His tuning might really improve the engine! But $900 worth?

Plus, I could always have it put on a chassis dyno later on, perhaps when I have enough traction to actually use the added power from a professional tuning!

So what do ya'll think of this?

Thanks very much for the excellent guidance!!!
Robroy

[Ranchero50]

Robroy, using the zip ties, one long one goes around all the wires, then the smaller ones go between each wire around the long zip tie. The little ties make the spacers for between the wires. Just a simple little cheat.

I'd probably skip the dyno time. One thing I would ask him is once he has all the parts in a pile and knows the head flows and actual compression ratio and cam that's in it if he thinks it's a good combo for what you are building. I would pay to make sure the bores were done correctly and that they were bored square to the crank.

If you do chose to throw some more money at it I would highly recommend a set of Total Seal rings.

Jamie

[DuckRyder]

I'll review and respond in greater detail presently, but on the wire tie for the plug wires.

What you would do is loosely affix a wire tie around all of the wires that you want to loom on each side in this manner. Loosely affix a wire tie around both sides of the first wire tie between each pair of wires. You can then tighten everything up so that the wires are held together by the first wire tie but the subsequent ties separate the wires. The effect is much like the aluminum separators you have on some of them...

[BobbyFord]

That "red paint" looked like red Loctite to me...

[DuckRyder]

On the paint, I was thinking that it really doesn't look like paint, I was thinking perhaps a grease (Mobil 1 synthetic grease, and crane assembly lube are both read) or some other substance. I doesn't look like paint to me either in the photograph.

I think I might be tempted to approach the present paint with some spray on aircraft stripper and a pressure washer prior to taking it to Tom. The down side to that approach is that it is going to require more tear down and it is going to be messy, probably very very messy. To properly paint it you'll have to get all of the old paint off and completely degrease it. Any way you do it it is going to be ton of work IMO.

It sounds to me like the dyno run includes quite a bit of time to tune and I think the price he quoted for a full day of dyno time is quite fair, indeed, when I said you could get one dyno'ed around here for $500.00 that was simply to set it up and measure the horsepower. I would certainly recommend the test run, the dyno tune is more optional and is something that could probably be done just as well on a chassis dyno later, although you would not be able to measure the crankshaft HP on a chassis dyno like an engine dyno. I feel there is value in having it dyno'ed and tuned by Tom, but not doing so at this time is not something that will damage the engine in any way, and certainly the cost is not trivial.

[robroy]

Good morning Jamie, Robert, and BobbyFord, thanks for replying!!!

Robroy, using the zip ties, one long one goes around all the wires, then the smaller ones go between each wire around the long zip tie. The little ties make the spacers for between the wires. Just a simple little cheat.

Okay, thanks for explaining it again--I get it this time!

I'd probably skip the dyno time.

Okay doke--this is the way I'm leaning also.

One thing I would ask him is once he has all the parts in a pile and knows the head flows and actual compression ratio and cam that's in it if he thinks it's a good combo for what you are building.

Will do! This information would certainly be educational and interesting to me, yet the specifications would have to be grossly off for my application before I'd be motivated to spend a bunch of cash on new engine guts. We shall see! Thanks for this idea!

I would pay to make sure the bores were done correctly and that they were bored square to the crank.

This is an interesting point! I haven't heard of this being a problem before, but I can easily imagine it being one. I'll certainly ask Tom about this check, thank you!

If you do chose to throw some more money at it I would highly recommend a set of Total Seal rings.

Okay, thanks! If rings turn out to be required or recommended for any reason I'll remember this preference. I don't know much about rings, so thanks for letting me know about this!

I'll review and respond in greater detail presently, but on the wire tie for the plug wires.

What you would do is loosely affix a wire tie around all of the wires that you want to loom on each side in this manner. Loosely affix a wire tie around both sides of the first wire tie between each pair of wires. You can then tighten everything up so that the wires are held together by the first wire tie but the subsequent ties separate the wires. The effect is much like the aluminum separators you have on some of them...

Got it! Thanks for explaining it in different words, and for the link to the Web tutorial. I'll be sure to re-do the areas of spark plug wires that are tightly bundled together using either this method or by buying additional wire separators! This method sounds very effective.

That "red paint" looked like red Loctite to me...

Oh my gosh, you are right. I did use red Loctite on those bolts!!!

I looked at the photos again; you can see how the red "paint" actually seems to stain the yellow paint in a way that paint wouldn't! Well this teaches me what happens when I jump to conclusions about what I'm observing!

On the paint, I was thinking that it really doesn't look like paint, I was thinking perhaps a grease (Mobil 1 synthetic grease, and crane assembly lube are both read) or some other substance. I doesn't look like paint to me either in the photograph.

Indeed, it doesn't seem to be paint after all! Since I used plenty of red Loctite on the bell housing bolts this has got to be it. You guys sure are observant!

I think I might be tempted to approach the present paint with some spray on aircraft stripper and a pressure washer prior to taking it to Tom. The down side to that approach is that it is going to require more tear down and it is going to be messy, probably very very messy. To properly paint it you'll have to get all of the old paint off and completely degrease it. Any way you do it it is going to be ton of work IMO.

Indeed, I think you're right about it being a ton of work! Although the pressure washer method you've described would probably be quite effective, I'm inclined to make an attempt at working small, using small amounts of solvent and focusing in with a scraper in each area at once.

In a sense this may not be as difficult as it seems. When I was cleaning a coating of grease off of the crankshaft end (where the flywheel bolts up), I sprayed it with a moderate amount of brake cleaner. And the yellow paint was just falling off as I wiped it down with a rag! I was actually TRYING to avoid removing the paint, but it was just coming off big time!

I'm hoping that I'll be able to work in localized areas using brake cleaner with similar results for the rest of the block. And about stripping it before taking it to Tom, that's probably a good idea--I'd be less worried about messing up a pristine engine knowing that it'd be pulled apart and re-done anyways. I may not be patient enough though, since rain is fore cast and I'd like to get the engine delivered before then!

It sounds to me like the dyno run includes quite a bit of time to tune and I think the price he quoted for a full day of dyno time is quite fair, indeed, when I said you could get one dyno'ed around here for $500.00 that was simply to set it up and measure the horsepower.

Okay, understood! This considered, the $900 does sound pretty reasonable.

I would certainly recommend the test run, the dyno tune is more optional and is something that could probably be done just as well on a chassis dyno later, although you would not be able to measure the crankshaft HP on a chassis dyno like an engine dyno. I feel there is value in having it dyno'ed and tuned by Tom, but not doing so at this time is not something that will damage the engine in any way, and certainly the cost is not trivial.

Okay, thanks for your detailed opinion on this! I'll forgo the engine dyno this time, but I'll definitely ask for the test run. I'm probably more interested in the net rating (real wheel horse power) anyhow, and I'm guessing that there won't be a huge overhead in the driveline, since it's a manual transmission and everything's brand new.

Today's plan is to get my work truck ready for the haul, strap the engine down in its cradle, lift it in, and tie it down! I'll post photos by this evening!

Jamie, BobbyFord and Robert, thanks again for your excellent advice!
Robroy

[robroy]

Good morning!

Here's a demonstration of how easy the paint is to remove.

Here's the painted area before this activity:



I sprayed a small amount of brake cleaner on this soft paper towel and rubbed it around on the paint. I didn't even press very hard, and I probably rubbed it for no more than five seconds.



And here's what happened when I sprayed a little more brake cleaner directly on to the paint, then lightly brushed it.



And guess what I brushed it with? A steel wire brush? No. A soft plastic bristle brush!!!



I also tested other areas of the block and it's this easy all over. Given this, I may as well strip most of it before bringing it to Tom huh!

I also screwed in the oil pan plug and carefully lowered the engine in to the cradle. It made these marks in the wood, so I'll be removing some material corresponding to the marks.



Thanks for the excellent guidance!
Robroy

[fomocoguy]

Did you say that he's going to boil the block? If so all that paint will just melt right off. I wouldn't spend my time on it if I were you.

[robroy]

I took the time to properly clearance the cradle to handle the oil pan drain plug. Since I'm not handy with wood it was a painful process, but I did manage to get a perfect fit with the drain plug installed!

Here's one of the areas I carved away at. The black stuff is a dry graphite liquid that I painted on, in hopes of getting the drain plug to slide in there happily. It looks quite ugly (EDIT: like a disease from the Dark Ages) but works well!



Then I attended to the matter transferring the engine to my other lift. The larger lift has a long enough reach to place things directly in the back of my work truck.



With the engine in its final (for now) resting place, I began strapping it down. I used construction-style steel straps from the lumber yard with long wood screws on the cradle and bolts on the engine.




On the front of the engine, I could only see one decent place to fasten the strap--an unused thread on the water pump.




The strap setup seems super strong (especially on the back of the engine), so I'm guessing that this is good enough!

I know that bolting the strap on the front in to the aluminum water pump isn't an excellent choice, but it's the only place that seemed convenient.

So do ya'll think that the engine's secure enough with these three straps installed? (As far as being fastened properly to its cradle)?

Thanks very much for the fantastic guidance!
Robroy

[DuckRyder]

I think that is fine, if you are concerned you could take 2 more of those straps from the lower motor mount bolts at a 30-45 degree angle forward to the cradle.

[robroy]

Hey Robert, thanks for replying!

The supports you've suggested would probably improve it--perhaps I'll add those. I do have some steel strap material left over.

My initial reason for skipping the motor mount strap positions was a disinclination to sink wood screws in there (since the oil pan is hanging out on the other side)! Sure I could use some screws that were obviously short enough to be safe, but I didn't have any handy.

If I can get mentally organized enough I'll take the engine in tomorrow! I have that familiar feeling that I'm forgetting something...or many things. I won't go until I'm sure everything's in order though--I don't want to take an extra six hour drive if I can possibly avoid it!

Thanks again Robert!
Robroy

[Fordtastic]

Robroy you do good work... The photograph's are great... I know the feeling of possibly forgetting something.. that is why it took me so long to swap some parts in my truck.. i had to triple check everything!

I wish you the best with this project and eagerly await upates.

[robroy]

Hey Fordtastic thanks for replying! I'm glad you like the photos and it's nice of you to say that I do good work. Those types of photos (long exposure, no flash, on tripod) have a tendency to hide lots of small scratches and imperfections, so the photos make my work look a lot better than it really is! But thanks!

A couple hours in the garage cleaning up the disaster of tools, materials and trash has reduced my nagging suspicion of something overlooked, but not enough! I'll probably get it all straightened out tomorrow.

Thanks again Fordtastic!
Robroy

[fordman]

before you ship it off. i would remove those serpatine belt pulleys and keep them with you. they could get lost and arent really needed at the rebuild place are they?