What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

[robroy]

Good "evening,"

I've manged to remove the starter, install the oil pan, and get the radius arm crossmember about half way removed. I am SO glad I went to the trouble to make that crossmember a bolt-in unit the first time around! It didn't take me long to need it, did it!

The excellent RobbMc starter:


IMG_4588.JPG IMG_4589.JPG



Installing the oil pan. I just left the old gasket on the bottom of the engine block, since I'm sure it will get fresh gaskets at FE Specialties anyways, and I doubt it'll have much oil in it between now and then.


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4591.JPG

Doesn't that new drain plug look great? It will be highly satisfying every time I use it, and help motivate me to change the oil often (not like I'm going to neglect that, after putting in this much effort and cash).


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4594z.JPG

It looks like it sticks out enough to comfortably clear the crossmember. Excellent!!!


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4595z.JPG

One step closer!


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4596.JPG

Thanks for the superb guidance!
Robroy

[70_F100]

Robroy, it looks like you're coming along well!!!

One comment about your headers. The fit of the tubes to the flange looks really cheesy, not what I would expect from Hedman (I think that's what you said you have). You could take them to a good welding shop and have the "voids" filled in, and you would have a much better seal, and less chance of an exhaust leak. You may not even need the expensive gaskets if you take care of that while you have them off!!

[Ranchero50]

Looks good. Robroy, have you considerred giving the firewall a rattle can paint job while the motor is out, at least below the cowl seam? It'll make painting the truck later much easier if that areas already done.

Oh yeah, Permatex Ultra RTV works well for header sealing.
Jamie

[DuckRyder]

Sorry guys I've been AWOL for a few days, I stumbled upon some interesting stories on the web, worth a read if you have some time.

(None of these are particularly safe at work)

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=431849

http://www.lukeswab.com/ (the same story without some of the chaff, although some of the chaff is entertaining)

http://superadventura.blogspot.com/2009 ... 05-09.html (some others Luke met along the way)

Oh to be 25 years younger with fewer obligations...

Anyway, I see I missed a bunch, we even have Kasie

This is the exact bike I had:



I'm guessing you like the yellow like I like the Lime, hey you could always do the purple wheels...

It looks as if you are making good progress, that is is one can consider undoing what they just did "progress" I should take some tips from you on attitude, but that always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I am definitely a proponent of the body color firewall, it is a good bit of work but worth it. You can get Wimbledon White in duplicolors "truck and van" line. I used it on my wheels and it is actually holding up pretty well. Still as with any paint (including engine paint) it is all in the surface prep!!!. You can either do it up to the seam, or up to the cowl seal and it shouldn't be too hard to deal with for the exterior paint.

This thread has sort of got my itch to get something done on my truck going, I was going to do my wheels blue too...!

Now onto the topic at hand.

I think we should let the possible shortcoming of the previous build go, we don't really know yet and the past is the past, what's done is done and all that sort of stuff. I'm sure robroy will give us Tom's report so lets wait for that. The rocker bolts are the only thing that really bothers me, aside from the Moby and his friends and what that is is purely speculation at this point.

On the headers, those gaskets (as well as the header flange) look a bit different from what I'm used to but I'm 99.9% certain the gasket in 4580z is upside down. I've posted my header trials and tribulations in the past (and a lot of it is due to Hookers too good of job of matching the header to the actual port) but I've had the best luck with Hooker gaskets. My advice would be to try the ones included with the headers and see how they work. I've been advised that installing them wet (as in with water) helps too, but never tried it.

So, what is the plan with Tom so far?

[70_F100]

On the headers, those gaskets (as well as the header flange) look a bit different from what I'm used to but I'm 99.9% certain the gasket in 4580z is upside down.

DuckRyder, I think you might be incorrect regarding the orientation of the gasket.

Most (if not all) header gaskets that I've seen that are slotted are installed with the slots toward the bottom, regardless of the engine type.

This is done for ease of installation, so that the header can be loosely installed without having to install the gasket at the same time. This allows the gasket to be slipped into place after the header is installed. (keyword: loosely)

On these particular gaskets, the webbing between the ports also provides some shielding of the plugs and plug wires from the heat radiating from the headers.

If anyone has any info to the contrary, please let us know.

[Fordnatic]

"I really needed a pickle fork to get the steering linkage out of the way (so I could remove the header from the under side), but I decided to improvise by tapping on the end of the threaded tie rod end with an extension. This worked last time! But not this time. Tomorrow I'll pick up a pickle fork to finish this off."

You can simply leave the header in place and lift the engine away from it. Might save you a little trouble, if you are not already beyond that point.

[DuckRyder]

On the headers, those gaskets (as well as the header flange) look a bit different from what I'm used to but I'm 99.9% certain the gasket in 4580z is upside down.

DuckRyder, I think you might be incorrect regarding the orientation of the gasket.

I suppose its possible...

Most (if not all) header gaskets that I've seen that are slotted are installed with the slots toward the bottom, regardless of the engine type.

I agree with that, but look at the extra holes and compare them to the appropriate head/manifold...

http://www.428cobrajet.com/id-heads.html

http://www.428cobrajet.com/id-exhaust.html



On the headers, yes you can let them remain in the truck, it might be helpful to tie them back with bungee cords or similar and pad any contact points. If you do need to disconnect the linkage, do not strike the end of the tie rod stud, strike the component that it passes through at a 90 degree angle to the stud. This will work if the component is pretty solid like a spindle.

[robroy]

Good afternoon 70_F100, Jamie, Robert, and Fordnatic, thanks for your great replies!

Robroy, it looks like you're coming along well!!!

Thanks for the encouraging words!

One comment about your headers. The fit of the tubes to the flange looks really cheesy, not what I would expect from Hedman (I think that's what you said you have). You could take them to a good welding shop and have the "voids" filled in, and you would have a much better seal, and less chance of an exhaust leak. You may not even need the expensive gaskets if you take care of that while you have them off!!

Okay, I'll look in to this! I think that it's possible that they'll look different once the gasket material is fully removed, but I'll check that and post new photos if appropriate. Thanks for pointing this out! This is just the type of advice that I'd hoped for when I posted all those photos. Nothing beats an experienced eye!

Looks good. Robroy, have you considerred giving the firewall a rattle can paint job while the motor is out, at least below the cowl seam? It'll make painting the truck later much easier if that areas already done.

Yes, I think I'm going to go ahead and do this. 70_F100 also suggested this earlier on in the thread. It's a smart idea.

The reason I didn't do this in the first place was that I'd planned to remove the cab later, to fully re-do it while off the frame. But it won't take all that much time to go ahead and re-paint the firewall now, and it will make the fresh engine look even more photogenic!

Oh yeah, Permatex Ultra RTV works well for header sealing.

Thanks! I may wind up using some of that. My reason for not using any last time was that the Remflex gaskets said to install 'em "dry." (That's also what I heard from Remflex over the phone).

Sorry guys I've been AWOL for a few days, I stumbled upon some interesting stories on the web, worth a read if you have some time.

Welcome back!!!

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=431849
http://www.lukeswab.com/ (the same story without some of the chaff, although some of the chaff is entertaining)
http://superadventura.blogspot.com/2009 ... 05-09.html (some others Luke met along the way)

Those are indeed great stories with lots of excellent photos!

Oh to be 25 years younger with fewer obligations...

I can relate! In my case I'd be five years old again, wearing my Super Man cape in the front yard. Certainly less obligations!

Anyway, I see I missed a bunch, we even have Kasie

Even Kasie! She first got the "FordFriend" account without telling me and tried to go under cover, but I caught on pretty quickly.

This is the exact bike I had:



I'm guessing you like the yellow like I like the Lime, hey you could always do the purple wheels...

That's a very nice looking bike! And you're right about green and yellow. It's the same brain cells involved in both of our cases, just a slightly different light frequency.

It looks as if you are making good progress, that is is one can consider undoing what they just did "progress" I should take some tips from you on attitude, but that always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Thanks! Yeah I feel that way somewhat, but I have the satisfaction of knowing that I'll put it together better this next time. Small compromises made during the first assembly can be improved upon and so on.

I am definitely a proponent of the body color firewall, it is a good bit of work but worth it.

Agreed! It looks outstanding on your truck.

You can get Wimbledon White in duplicolors "truck and van" line. I used it on my wheels and it is actually holding up pretty well. Still as with any paint (including engine paint) it is all in the surface prep!!!. You can either do it up to the seam, or up to the cowl seal and it shouldn't be too hard to deal with for the exterior paint.

Good suggestion! I think I'll go this route, thanks!

This thread has sort of got my itch to get something done on my truck going, I was going to do my wheels blue too...!

Excellent!

I think we should let the possible shortcoming of the previous build go, we don't really know yet and the past is the past, what's done is done and all that sort of stuff. I'm sure robroy will give us Tom's report so lets wait for that. The rocker bolts are the only thing that really bothers me, aside from the Moby and his friends and what that is is purely speculation at this point.

Agreed!

On the headers, those gaskets (as well as the header flange) look a bit different from what I'm used to but I'm 99.9% certain the gasket in 4580z is upside down. I've posted my header trials and tribulations in the past (and a lot of it is due to Hookers too good of job of matching the header to the actual port) but I've had the best luck with Hooker gaskets. My advice would be to try the ones included with the headers and see how they work. I've been advised that installing them wet (as in with water) helps too, but never tried it.

Perhaps I will use the ones that came with the headers! I was preventing from doing so before because of the poor head surfaces, but I'm sure those will be corrected at FE Specialties. I'll also take great care during re-assembly to make sure the gaskets are right-side-up, whichever way that turns out to be!

So, what is the plan with Tom so far?

I'll call Tom again on Monday to cover a lot of fine points, but I have a few updates:

Tom suggested that I do the engine paint myself, because he'd have to strip the whole engine by hand and he figured I wouldn't want to pay his substantial (and earned, I'm sure) hourly fee to do paint prep. The normal way he does paint is to have the whole engine block baked and blasted, then start from absolute scratch. But we're not planning on re-machining the block so that's probably not an option.

I'll be happy to paint it myself, since I have the HVLP setup and am ready to do it!

Another thing Tom mentioned was that I might want to hire him to test run the engine at his shop. That way he can find any leaks or problems with the engine before I go to all the trouble to re-install it. His charge for this is $350. I'm not sure exactly what he does in addition to just firing it up, but I'm guessing that it's an involved test (maybe a tuning). I'll be sure to ask him about this on Monday!

Of course I'm very curious to see the newly rebuilt engine perform on a dyno! But I'm sure that's not included in the $350 deal. I'll ask!

When I asked Proformance Unlimited how much they'd charge to actually dyno the engine before shipping it to me, they said (if I remember correctly) either $500 or $800, I'm not sure which. So I'm guessing that an engine can't really by dyno'ed for $350!

Most (if not all) header gaskets that I've seen that are slotted are installed with the slots toward the bottom, regardless of the engine type.

Yes, now that you mention it, I read that in the instructions for these gaskets too! That's why I put them on the way I did.

This is done for ease of installation, so that the header can be loosely installed without having to install the gasket at the same time. This allows the gasket to be slipped into place after the header is installed. (keyword: loosely)

Now that's the technique I needed to read! If I remember correctly my install method was a lot more clunky.

On these particular gaskets, the webbing between the ports also provides some shielding of the plugs and plug wires from the heat radiating from the headers.

Interesting! I hadn't thought of the extra gasket material in that light, but I think you're right!

You can simply leave the header in place and lift the engine away from it. Might save you a little trouble, if you are not already beyond that point.

Hey Fordnatic, I think you're right about this! Last night, I thought of that for a moment but didn't want to risk smashing up the header, should the engine sway against it suddenly during the pull. And I needed a pickle fork anyhow! But thanks for this idea!!!

Here's my new fork. It's a USA made KD (2288), which I was very glad to find, after seeing junk tools at all the auto parts stores I'd tried before. They had this on the shelf at Elmer's in Salinas, California. With tax it was $32.68.


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4597z.JPG

Thanks for the excellent advice! I'll post another update tonight!

Robroy

[DuckRyder]

Around here you can get an engine dyno'ed for about $500.00.

It looks like he has a stand that he can run them in on, but it should also be possible to run it in on the dynamometer. (so in other words he wouldn't have to set it up on the run in stand, then change it to the dynamometer).

I think that running it in on the stand would be a good investment, considering the work and 6 hour round trip. I probably would let him dyno it. I wish I had had mine dynoed...

[robroy]

Hey DuckRyder and Fordnatic, thanks very much for replying!

Around here you can get an engine dyno'ed for about $500.00.

Okay, good to know! Thanks.

It looks like he has a stand that he can run them in on, but it should also be possible to run it in on the dynamometer. (so in other words he wouldn't have to set it up on the run in stand, then change it to the dynamometer).

That's a good idea! If he's set up for that, maybe that's the way to go.

I think that running it in on the stand would be a good investment, considering the work and 6 hour round trip. I probably would let him dyno it. I wish I had had mine dynoed...

I think so too. Can you imagine my anguish if I skipped that to hang on to the $350, then got it home and installed, and it had a big issue of some kind? It seems worth it to know that it's good while at the shop.

I'll ask about the options for a dyno run when I chat with Tom on Monday!

Fordnatic, I really enjoyed reading your stories--you are a great writer! It also helps to give me some perspective on the scenario I'm in. Thanks for taking the time to post that. Also, I apologize if my tone seemed lukewarm in response to your initial mention of posting your story; I didn't mean it to come across like that. Thanks again for sharing it!

Robert and Fordnatic, thanks again and happy Friday night!

I look forward to posting major project updates tomorrow!

Robroy

[robroy]

Happy Saturday!

I learned a new posting technique that allows me to make images links to other images. From now on, instead of seeing a separate link under each image that goes to a full resolution version, ya'll can just click on the embedded images themselves (they'll lead to the larger images directly).

Here's how #50 looked this morning!



I used the pickle fork to separate the steering linkage, allowing it to drop out of the way. In retrospect, because I also removed the radius arm crossmember, I may not have had to do this. Oh well!



With its bolts removed, I slid the radius arm crossmember back as far as it would go. I wish my entire frame were re-done like the front, but at first this was only going to be a one or two month project! Ha-ha.



With that stuff out of the way, it was easy to drop the header out. Here it is part way out.



I'll post more updates shortly; stay tuned! And thanks!!!

Robroy

[robroy]

As I mentioned in the previous post, the photos are now links that go to the full resolution editions--click right on them for a better view of any you want to check out!

Do you guys see anything noteworthy in these header/head photos? Thanks!!!

Here's the driver's side header. I put the numbers in there for reference, since a lot of the photos include a single port only.



The corresponding head surface, with the gasket:



Header ports five and six:



Head ports five and six (with the gasket):



Header ports seven and eight:



Head ports seven and eight (with the gasket):



Peeling it off:





Stay tuned!
Robroy

[robroy]

'Afternoon! Click on the photos for larger versions, thanks!

I got to looking at the exhaust ports, and gosh, that paint really didn't hold up very well in its ten minute life! Look at how it's already starting discolor, after ten minutes of idling. Or maybe this is typical of all engine paint?



I'm happy that pulling this engine again gave me a chance to put in the bolt in the ideal direction for the driver's side mount. The head should be facing the front, because then it's possible to pull the bolt out without removing the header! That comes in handy when just lifting the engine a few inches to change the oil pan, for instance. I'll still have to remove the oil filter adapter this way, but that's no big deal compared to the header!



I went to disconnect the drive shaft, and found the bolts I'd installed quite tight indeed! I was afraid I'd round them to get them out, because I had to use a couple of wrenches in tandem and really heave. Thankfully, I discovered that those bolts are TOUGH!



Here are the caps, removed:



Although perhaps minor, I did notice that the threads on one of the bolts looked a little strained. Maybe I'll install this with new bolts when I'm ready to put 'er together. I've heard that if the driveshaft comes undone at high speed, it is not pretty.



I tied some wire around the driveshaft to keep it from straining the center bearing insulator when I pulled the transmission forward:



Pulled the shift cane and taped the hole up.



I'm hoping to pull the engine using the middle hole on the lift plate, because it looks like it'll have better balance that way. But I needed to lower it down a little first!



A bunch of coolant splashed out of the water pump when I lowered it down! I'm not sure why I even bother to clean stuff up. Although the coolant is QUITE slippery on the concrete!



That's all for now! The engine's 100% ready to pull out, so I'll happily post photos of that this evening!!!

Thanks very much for the excellent guidance!
Robroy

[Fordtastic]

I always enjoy your posts! Maybe in one of your next pictures the pickle fork can be in it too... i have no clue what one looks like.

[Ranchero50]

Robroy, one trick I've used is a ratchet strap from the water pump to the hoist to help control the tilt of the engine. Just don't put too much load on it (more than you can lift by yourself).

Jamie