What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

[robroy]

I'd either use diesel oil or a zinc/moly additive

Hey Robert! At the auto parts today I looked for a zinc/moly additive but didn't see it. Does this type of additive typically come right out and say "Moly" somewhere on the bottle?

Since I figured I could use it anyways (on another vehicle), I picked this additive up. Is this an equivalent product to what you were recommending, by any chance?


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4368z.JPG

Thanks very much Robert!!!
Robroy

[Ranchero50]

The drain plug setup looks good. The copper washers can be a pain and leak at times. Just don't overtighten them.

Where are the new valve cover pics? Spent all day waiting and it's about bed time here on the East coast...
Jamie

[robroy]

The new Melling M-57HV arrived today, but I haven't cracked the cover off yet to compare it with my trashed one!


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4371z.JPG



Looks familiar!


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4373z.JPG

Look at this funny warning! Why in the world would they want me to check clearances, after all? I should be able to slap everything together and trust that the parts were made to fit together perfectly, right? (Just kidding!) It's funny how loudly this slip of paper speaks to me now, after this experience!



The Melling came with gaskets, thank goodness. NAPA said they could get me the pump mounting gasket, but it would cost $10 and take days to arrive!


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4375z.JPG

You can see how the oil pump mounting gasket isn't a perfect fit; it blocks part of the opening. I should trim this to fit perfectly, right?


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4377z.JPG http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4376z.JPG

Thanks very much!!!
Robroy

[robroy]

Hey Jamie thanks for replying!

The drain plug setup looks good. The copper washers can be a pain and leak at times. Just don't overtighten them.

Got it, I'll watch out for that!

Where are the new valve cover pics? Spent all day waiting and it's about bed time here on the East coast...

Sorry for the delay! I'll run out there right now and pull it off for some photos, but by the time I post them it might be too late for tonight. EDIT: I am wanted at the dinner table so must post tomorrow instead (thanks for being so patient)!

Thanks for the outstanding help!
Robroy

[DuckRyder]

I don't think the Lucas has Zinc in it?

Here is one source:

http://www.compcams.com/information/wha ... 5d_web.pdf

GM EOS (engine oil supplement) used to be a good source as well, but rumor is it has been changed.

Valvoline Racing oil is also a good source.

http://www.valvoline.com/products/consu ... motor-oil/

More information:

http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/

The moly is usually called "cam break in lube" or something similar...

[robroy]

Hey Robert thanks very much for that oil additive information! I'll track down a product like these that I can use during the first runs.

As for whether or not the Lucas has "Zinc DialkylDithiophosphates or ZDDP," I'll have to look in to it; it doesn't say on the bottle.

Yet another thing that I would have been completely clueless about without my Fordification mentors!!!

I pulled the driver's side valve cover, and it looked similar to the passenger's side.

If I wiped a paper towel in a recessed area (an oil puddle), it came up with numerous tiny, silver specks in it. But the specs were so tiny that I couldn't even photograph them. And wiping down most of the oily surfaces in there yielded nothing but clean oil--only the puddles had some junk in them.

I did find four metal flakes in there. I'm not sure if they came from the windage tray or not! None were as large as Moby-Dick.


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4413z.JPG

Here's a close-up of the largest of the batch:



And the inside of the driver's side valve cover. The same brushed area is there, so I'm guessing that's a factory thing for these covers.


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4387z.JPG


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4388z.JPG

Notice the funny marks on the rocker arms here too!


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4391z.JPG



A good shot of the head from above:


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4405z.JPG

I can never remember how to increase my depth of field. Open aperture and increase shutter speed or close aperture and decrease shutter speed? Maybe that's beyond the scope of this book (or thread).


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4408z.JPG

Photos of the general area, just for fun.


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4390.JPG



The oil filter guts come next!

Thanks for the super generous and excellent advice!!!
Robroy

[70_F100]

Are those specks of metal on that rocker arm nut?

[DuckRyder]

Robroy,

If there are any oil puddles left, dip a finger in them and rub your fingers together... do you feel grit?

[Ranchero50]

Robroy, at this point I would suggest pulling the motor and putting it on a stand so you can clean it thoroughly while rolling it over. Like '70 says, it looks like metal flakes all through the oil in the rocker arm closeup (what's the shiny bits on the spring retainer? air bubbles or...). Either way you shouldn't be finding chunks of metal in a fresh engine, even boring and hone work doesn't make chunks, just fine grit.

Also for future reference, pull the truck into a garage nose first. That way the exhaust is blowing outside and you can back the truck outside halfway to work on it. And when you lift the motor to remove you just push the truck out from uder it.

Seriously, as 70 said, stick a fork in it, it's done and needs to come back out, complete flush, bearings checked, etc. Far higher quality work when it's done on a stand. You'll be able to see that the bearings seat correctly etc and stuff won't be falling on your head and in your eyes while doing the work.

Jamie

[robroy]

Good morning!!!

I'll respond to each of your great replies in a few hours. I just wanted to say that I've been convinced. I am pulling the engine, putting it on a stand, and doing it right!!! I don't want to grind up something I paid nearly $9,000 for! And having you guys here to guide me is too good of an opportunity for me to pass up.

Thank you all so much! You are #50's saviors!
Robroy

[DuckRyder]

Ah, I see you replied while I typed.

Good morning...

[DuckRyder]

Oh, about the metal in the oil...

Yes, some is normal on a new engine, but if you can feel it that is too much. This is why you change the oil right after a cam break in and then again around 500 miles on most rebuilds. Big chunks like moby are not good, I was willing to let moby and his little friend slide because casting flash sometimes does break loose, but finding more is bothersome...

To replace the cam bearings you would have to take the block (bare by this time) to a machine shop, last time I had it done it was about 40 bucks plus parts (for a bit over 80 all in all IIRC).

Other than the cam bearings it should be a simple disassemble, clean, reassemble deal...

$200 or more is probably a closer guess on the compressors.

Tell you what, go to a book store and just read through any rebuild book, the basic principals are the same and I don't recall ever having been in a decent sized book store that didn't have a "How to rebuild your small block Chevy" book. If after that you feel comfortable with it, and you'll cover shipping both ways (50.00 or so I'd guess) I'll send you the compressors, the book and anything else I think might help you out. Remember you basically won't be reconditioning anything, just taking it apart and reassembling.

I'm a little concerned about trying to help you determine how the crank and cam looks from pictures, particularly me since I'm almost always on the laptop.

[george worley]

You would need to take the block and camshaft to the machine shop for sure. Rather the block has to be stripped down for the bearings to be replaced I don't know for sure. Iv'e always had mine installed when the block was bare. Ask the machinist he would know.

[robroy]

Hey Robert and George, thanks very much for replying!

Robert, in your estimation, about how much does a stripped down FE block weigh? Can a guy pick it up by himself? I'm just wondering how easy it is to move around.

And thanks very much for the offering to loan me your stuff! If it comes to that I might take you up on it.

I also think looking at a basic rebuild book would give me a pretty good idea. Come to think of it, I happen to already own a copy of the Haynes, "FORD Engine Overhaul Manual." It says, "Includes 255 * 260 * 289 * 302 * 351 * 360 * 390 * 400 * 428 * 429 and 460." Never thought I'd be looking in it!

George, thanks for the confirmation about needing to take some stuff to the machine shop!

I'm cracking open the oil filter now and will post photos of that soon! So far, all the oil that I dumped out of the filter looks kind of dark and nasty, but I've seen zero metal chunks falling out. Maybe they're all still in there! We shall see.

Thanks again for the superb help!
Robroy

[DuckRyder]

Robert, in your estimation, about how much does a stripped down FE block weigh? Can a guy pick it up by himself? I'm just wondering how easy it is to move around.

150 - 200 lbs Maybe, it is a one man and a hoist or a two man job...

You can use the hoist to slide it off the engine stand if you have to, then there is usually someone at the machine shop that will help you unload it, at least around here there is... In my experience the stand is usually about the right height that you can man handle it in and out of a truck