What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

[robroy]

Hey Robert thanks for your outstanding, detailed reply!

That is true, I really feel like the fact its run very little and predominately at low speed is very much in your favor. I'm glad the cam was already broken in

Excellent.

You have done all the hard work, including the paying for it, but we've read so many detailed and well thought out post with pictures I almost feel like I've been there for the whole thing! I think its going to be an awesome truck when you are finished.

Thanks for appreciating my posts! And I hope your fore cast on #50's awesomeness plays out that way. It'll certainly be an unusual vehicle!

Just keep that attitude and you will be fine! Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet and all that.

Indeed!

BTW, did you guys know that on myth-busters last night they did in fact polish poop? Not that that has anything to do with this...

That reminds me of how I used to feel when waxing #50, years ago, despite its crusty, rusted out bed seam!

I sort of figured that if you wanted to actually build a motor, you'd not have HAD this one built! It is a pretty steep learning curve, particularly on an FE, and it isn't for everyone.

Indeed! I've read that FEs are special animals, and it would be a major project for me.

What's the reason behind using diesel oil or a zinc/moly additive?

To help protect the cam, because it is going to end up being washed off during the clean up.

I see! Okay, thanks for explaining that.

If rusting is a concern, would it make sense to flush it out as well as possible, then be sure to spray some WD-40 all over before leaving it for the night?

Brake cleaner evaporates very quickly, I personally do not think it will be a problem unless it is VERY humid where it is stored.

Excellent, I'll keep an eye on it but not be ultra careful about that, thanks! It's not super humid out there in the garage.

Some where in there you mentioned that they used a Melling pump drive, that should be fine, no need for the ARP.

Okay, great! You know, since it looked far stronger (with its wide body), I went ahead and ordered the ARP shaft anyways. It won't hurt to have a high quality spare (the Melling).

Although it's probably silly to compare the quality of a part based on its price, I did note that the ARP was $18 while the Melling was $7. Based on its appearance and extra cost, maybe the ARP is a more supreme part.

Hey I like the story about sanding the bearing! That is truly classic.

Robert, thanks again for your excellent reply!
Robroy

[robroy]

Hey Robert and Jamie thanks for replying!

I don't think that is from the windage tray... the question is WHAT IS IT FROM?

I'm at a loss at the moment...

After thinking it over, I realized that Moby-Dick looks a lot like the metal shaving that comes out of imperfect threads when a bolt's screwed in. Despite its height and width, it's quite thin.

You have the arrow pointing to the top of the cover, but it could be the corresponding casting on the bottom...

Whoops! Yeah I see what you mean.

The good news is that the oil doesn't look like metal flake from here...

Great! It looked quite good in person also. Moby-Dick and the other small (and tiny) specs I found were only uncovered as the result of an insanely detailed search.

Moby looks like a chunk of casting flash (dark grey cast iron) where from? Who knows.

Ah, yes it does look like that I suppose! I may have to put Moby in an envelope and put it in my mailbox addressed to, "FBI."

Heck, what's another valve cover gasket at this point?

True! I'll take a look.

I'm not sure about the rocker marks, looks almost like someone was sloppy with a spring tension checking tool but why would you check it after it had run. Wonder what Steve thinks?

I'll ask Steve at the next opportunity and let ya'll know! Maybe I'll wait to ask him until I hear back about the warranty extension though--no need to pull his tail with minor stuff until then. Then I'll pull it.

Thanks Robert and Jamie!
Robroy

[fordman]

is that large chunk metal or rubber or what kind of matieral is it. my first guess is part of a valve seal.

[DuckRyder]

Is it just me or does that valve cover look like someone has been buffing on the top of it with a rolock wheel (sanding pad).

As long as I didn't find any cracked bolt bosses or anything I think I might be inclined to ignore moby and his little freind... It is too large to have been pumped up there and that sort of thing is why you change the oil pretty quick on a new build...

The scratches on the rockers are puzzling, I really don't see how they could have hit the cover and the rear ones are still clearing the baffles...? Jamie may be right it could have happened during the build for some reason...

[robroy]

Hey Fordman and Robert, thanks for replying!

is that large chunk metal or rubber or what kind of matieral is it.

It's a hard, dull gray metal. I tried to bust it up with a machinist's pick and it stayed together.

my first guess is part of a valve seal.

Is this guess along the same lines as that big crack you find in my new T18 top plate?

Is it just me or does that valve cover look like someone has been buffing on the top of it with a rolock wheel (sanding pad).

Yes! That's no an optical illusion in the photo; it really looks like that. I assumed it was done at the factory. I'll compare it to the other side tomorrow!

As long as I didn't find any cracked bolt bosses or anything I think I might be inclined to ignore moby and his little freind... It is too large to have been pumped up there and that sort of thing is why you change the oil pretty quick on a new build...

Okay doke! I'll look all around for damage and otherwise happily ignore these artifacts.

The scratches on the rockers are puzzling, I really don't see how they could have hit the cover and the rear ones are still clearing the baffles...? Jamie may be right it could have happened during the build for some reason...

Indeed! Maybe I'll put a small amount of paint on one or the other surface and rest the valve cover on the head. Then if the paint transferred from one surface to the other I'll know something's up. On the other hand, the transfer might only take place during a particular phase of the engine rotation.

This just reminds me of your initial assessment of #50's engine sound, when you thought it sounded like two noises (a sheet metal noise and a valve noise).

By the way, I'm really impressed that you guys knew that the noise was sheet metal!

Robroy

[fordman]

no i was guessing what it might be.

[DuckRyder]

My first reaction was:

"Guess we know what the other noise was now..."

But on second look nothing really makes sense, it looks as if something spun or slipped off... maybe thats where Moby was... I just don't know...

[Ranchero50]

Robroy, you can loosly bolt the valve cover back on the head without the gasket and see if the rockers lift it while turning the motor over by hand.

Still waiting on the other pictures.
Jamie

[70_F100]

All of the advice I've read here is good, no doubt.

I still maintain that the bearings should be checked before buttoning it up.

If there is some embedded metal, a set of bearings is VERY inexpensive insurance against ruining a crankshaft (or worse).

Again, the small amount of time and trouble to check them is, in my opinion, well worth the peace of mind that it will provide.

Just my

[robroy]

Hey Fordman, Robert, 70_F100 and Jamie, thanks for replying!

no i was guessing what it might be.

OK! I didn't mean to belittle or discount your guess; I just couldn't tell if you were serious or not! So that looks like a piece of a valve seal? I wouldn't know. That sounds important though so hopefully that's not it!

My first reaction was:

"Guess we know what the other noise was now..."

But on second look nothing really makes sense, it looks as if something spun or slipped off... maybe thats where Moby was... I just don't know...

Yeah I hear you! The other valve cover may be telling.

Robroy, you can loosly bolt the valve cover back on the head without the gasket and see if the rockers lift it while turning the motor over by hand.

That's a smart idea, thanks Jamie! I'll definitely do that.

Still waiting on the other pictures.

I'll post them today for sure! I'm just running out to the Valley Fabrication in Salinas to have an auxiliary drain plug made on my oil pan (no more messy oil changes).

All of the advice I've read here is good, no doubt.

I still maintain that the bearings should be checked before buttoning it up.

If there is some embedded metal, a set of bearings is VERY inexpensive insurance against ruining a crankshaft (or worse).

Again, the small amount of time and trouble to check them is, in my opinion, well worth the peace of mind that it will provide.

Hey 70_F100! You're probably right about this. I'm just hesitant to remove the bearings because I have no idea how to, nor how much effort is involved. I'm guessing I'd have to completely pull the engine from the truck to do this also, right?

Thanks again for the outstanding guidance!
Robroy

[DuckRyder]

All of the advice I've read here is good, no doubt.

I still maintain that the bearings should be checked before buttoning it up.

If there is some embedded metal, a set of bearings is VERY inexpensive insurance against ruining a crankshaft (or worse).

Again, the small amount of time and trouble to check them is, in my opinion, well worth the peace of mind that it will provide.

Hey 70_F100! You're probably right about this. I'm just hesitant to remove the bearings because I have no idea how to, nor how much effort is involved. I'm guessing I'd have to completely pull the engine from the truck to do this also, right?

I think you could do it in the truck.

I do not disagree with this advice it is good advice, the thing is there is a good bit involved particularly if you've never done it and you would have to be very careful. I'm assuming that you have a torque wrench? You would need plastigauge... most parts stores would have that. If you are going to give it a shot, I would say call the builder and see what brand bearings it has in it, if they recorded the sizes and what their recommended torque specs and procedure are. That way you can have replacements on hand. This would also give you a chance to replace that main bolt (ARP makes them in sets).

The other question is if you do find metal there, what then, do you then pull the motor and tear replace the cam bearings too?

If it is something you are interested in trying we'll be glad to help, I'm confident you can do it but I would set aside a full day.

[fordman]

if its metal it isnt a valve seal. the valve seal is rubber

[george worley]

Have you cut your oil filter open yet? The method I have used to cut them open and not get metal shaveings inside (or very few) is to drill a 1/4" hole and wipe the shavings away before you pull out the drill bit. Then use metal snips to cut around the filter. Be careful that metal is really sharp!

[robroy]

Hey Robert, Fordman and George, thanks for replying!

I'm just hesitant to remove the bearings because I have no idea how to, nor how much effort is involved. I'm guessing I'd have to completely pull the engine from the truck to do this also, right?

I think you could do it in the truck.

That's interesting then. I'll think about this!

I do not disagree with this advice it is good advice, the thing is there is a good bit involved particularly if you've never done it and you would have to be very careful.

I'm good at being careful, but perhaps not good enough to make up for complete inexperience! And it's a little tricky to work upside down under the truck with the crossmember between the engine and my hands.

I'm assuming that you have a torque wrench?

That I do!

You would need plastigauge... most parts stores would have that.

Interesting--I've never heard of this, but I'll check it out. If not for now, for another adventure down the road!

If you are going to give it a shot, I would say call the builder and see what brand bearings it has in it, if they recorded the sizes and what their recommended torque specs and procedure are. That way you can have replacements on hand. This would also give you a chance to replace that main bolt (ARP makes them in sets).

Okay, I'll give Steve a call if I decide to go this route!

The other question is if you do find metal there, what then, do you then pull the motor and tear replace the cam bearings too?

Good point!

If it is something you are interested in trying we'll be glad to help, I'm confident you can do it but I would set aside a full day.

Thank you very much Robert! I probably won't go this route, but I'll think it over a little before attacking it.

if its metal it isnt a valve seal. the valve seal is rubber

Oh okay, thanks for letting me know! Yup this is metal for sure.

Have you cut your oil filter open yet?

Nope, not yet, but that's something I absolutely must do!

The method I have used to cut them open and not get metal shaveings inside (or very few) is to drill a 1/4" hole and wipe the shavings away before you pull out the drill bit. Then use metal snips to cut around the filter. Be careful that metal is really sharp!

That's a smart method that probably wouldn't have occurred to me, thank you! Perhaps instead of the drill, I'll try hitting it with a chisel, then following up with the snips. If I'm able to do that carefully enough, perhaps I could avoid adding any metal shavings to its guts.

Robert, Fordman and George, thanks again for replying!
Robroy

[robroy]

Today Valley Fabrication in Salinas added a second drain plug to my pan! They did it in about an hour and charged $43.61.

See it there, on the front corner?


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4358z.JPG

They used a big nut instead of making a piece of threaded pipe, so it doesn't look exactly like the Milodon one, but that was OK with me. They offered to make it look exactly like the Milodon one for an extra $20 or $30, but I didn't think it mattered.


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4357z.JPG


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4362z.JPG


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4360z.JPG

The inside didn't turn out quite as pretty as the outside, but I think it will be OK. I was a little concerned about the irregular surface catching bits of metal while the oil's being drained. Do you think it matters much?


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4364.JPG


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4365.JPG

Here's how it will look, sticking down at that angle, when installed on the engine.


http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4367z.JPG

Here's the factory drain plug, for reference.



And here's the drain plug I'll be using. That magnet on the end is STRONG.



Since the new drain isn't at the lowest point in the pan, I'll have to change my oil with the truck on a hill if I want to get it all out. That doesn't bother me as much as oil splashing all over the crossmember!

Thanks very much for the valuable guidance, and stay tuned for more updates!
Robroy